Discussion:
The Left Hand Path: A Review
(too old to reply)
Alabaster
2005-08-09 20:36:17 UTC
Permalink
Hello,


Some recent discussion on the list has touched upon the Left Hand Path
in relation to the Temple of Set and the Set Movement generally as well
as its contrast with the Right Hand Path.

I think it would be interesting to discuss what the Left Hand Path
means to people.

How do you see these distinctions? If you see yourself as a
follower/adept of the Left Hand Path, what does that mean to you, and
what are the sources of your views--personal, documentary and
initiatory?

I see myself as more or less a follower of the Right Hand Path, but not
defined in the traditional way, in many respects my own path is
Leftwardly. For myself, I really personally redefine both the Left and
Right Hand Paths as well as the Light and Dark Sides of the Force, ala
Lucas.

Where do you see yourself in this and how do you defend your position?


Regards,


Alabaster


alabastermushroom at gmail dot com
Kori Houghton
2005-08-09 22:49:12 UTC
Permalink
Good question, Al. Please see inside text.
Post by Alabaster
Hello,
Some recent discussion on the list has touched upon the Left Hand Path
in relation to the Temple of Set and the Set Movement generally as well
as its contrast with the Right Hand Path.
IMO, contemporary Satanism and the Temple of Set are neither LHP nor
RHP. The 'paths' have distinct meanings within the Eastern cultures
which developed the terminology. While the COS, TOS, or ONA (or Wicca,
Thelema, Chaos or whatever) may incorporate concepts or symbolism from
many cultures past and present, this borrowing of material does not
define the borrowing group as either RHP or LHP.
Post by Alabaster
I think it would be interesting to discuss what the Left Hand Path
means to people.
I think so, too. Another chat board has had some amusing posts on
these topics lately. It's been funny as Hel to watch the various
TOSsers seek to define who (or whose beliefs and practices) fit their
def. of LHP...using a continuously changing standard, depending upon
whether they wish to slap or stroke any particular participant.

Personally, neither term (RHP or LHP) has any meaning for me. I'm
interested in their use in various cultural contexts, but that's not
personal.
Post by Alabaster
How do you see these distinctions? If you see yourself as a
follower/adept of the Left Hand Path, what does that mean to you, and
what are the sources of your views--personal, documentary and
initiatory?
See above.
Post by Alabaster
I see myself as more or less a follower of the Right Hand Path, but not
defined in the traditional way, in many respects my own path is
Leftwardly. For myself, I really personally redefine both the Left and
Right Hand Paths as well as the Light and Dark Sides of the Force, ala
Lucas.
Lucas? That's funny, Al. Hint, hint: I think there is more insight
to be gained from his _THX1138_ re the TOS and other Western LHP
poseurs than anything whatsoever related to 'star whores'. Just my
view.
Post by Alabaster
Where do you see yourself in this and how do you defend your position?
Read _The Germanization of Early Medieval Christianity_ by James C.
Russell (Oxford Uni. Press) and see for yourself what the introduction
of concepts from the Mediterranean mystery schools contributed to
individualism in Pagan Europe and what it took away. I found it
excellent food for thought and further research. ...And don't get
snappy with me about this book being on some kind of TOSser reading
list. I read it when it was first published. I don't need some
occultnik wearing a black medallion to tell me what to think or what to
read. Ahem.

Kori
Post by Alabaster
Regards,
Alabaster
alabastermushroom at gmail dot com
RyanS2
2005-08-10 00:10:41 UTC
Permalink
I'll bite. As far as I can tell, the reference to Left-hand and
Right-hand paths come from Eliphas Levi, who was referencing the QBL
Tree of Life. Satanists often use titles from the G.D., which uses
titles like "Ipissimus" and "Magus" to signify those who are in the
Middle Path, or technically transcended all paths. It always struck me
as bizarre to use these titles, since one who is a Magus or Ipissimus
must be able to know all names of demons, Gods, and angels in order to
freely move as he/she pleases on the Tree, making them LHP/RHP/MHP,
(are there any adepts of the Middle Hand Path?).

Using the LHP or RHP is really a false "either/or" dichotomy. Even in
India, (Tani will be happy to give you information on this), the
difference between RHP and LHP is a matter of methods, not of aim.
Tani Jantsang ©
2005-08-16 18:11:41 UTC
Permalink
Yup, see below.
Post by RyanS2
I'll bite. As far as I can tell, the reference to Left-hand and
Right-hand paths come from Eliphas Levi, who was referencing the QBL
Tree of Life. Satanists often use titles from the G.D., which uses
titles like "Ipissimus" and "Magus" to signify those who are in the
Middle Path, or technically transcended all paths. It always struck me
as bizarre to use these titles, since one who is a Magus or Ipissimus
must be able to know all names of demons, Gods, and angels in order to
freely move as he/she pleases on the Tree, making them LHP/RHP/MHP,
(are there any adepts of the Middle Hand Path?).
Using the LHP or RHP is really a false "either/or" dichotomy. Even in
India, (Tani will be happy to give you information on this), the
difference between RHP and LHP is a matter of methods, not of aim.
The terms LHP, and RHP, are not Western, and certainly not Christian. While
Tantrik "Buddhists" never called themselves RHP or LHP, this term was
applied to them. The two aren't at odds with each other. Both paths are ways
to Wisdom: the difference is not in the goal but in the method.
Hinayana Buddhism (Little Path Buddhism) is the closest Buddhist sect to
what Siddhartha actually taught. Its emphasis is on the 8-fold noble path,
and other things typically associated with early Buddhist practice. It is
very concerned with rules, laws, and proper behavior: etiquette! While it is
a path of Wisdom, it is not a path of Knowing. Of course, those on this path
are not considered able to know otherwise they wouldn't be on that path! It
is not their fate to be on any other path.

Mahayana Buddhism (Great Path Buddhism) replaced Theravada. Nagarjuna is
considered the successor to the Buddha by the followers of this path.
Mahayana is more of a path of knowing, but it's not what we would consider
Satanic in the Dark Path sense that "all knowing happens directly through
the whole body." The person who seeks out this path seeks it out because he
is unable to know through the body directly, but he is able to understand
with the mind. In Pythagorean terms, these people could be considered
Akousmatikoi: those who are able to listen, and learn the way to do
something, even if they can't truly understand.

Vajrayana (Vajra Path, Lightning Path, Direct Path), or Tantrik "Buddhism,"
is the path of instant, direct, and specifically physical-body knowledge and
is more rightly called either Padma Sambhava-ism or just Shiva-ism. Strictly
speaking, in terms of Theology, it is not Buddhism. Herein is the tradition
of Kundalini Yoga, the Siddhi, Tumo, Phova, Milam, the Chod, etc. and other
recognizably Black Magical practices. Those who are on this path are there
because they can do Vajrayana and attain Samadhi without thinking about it
(literally). In fact, they do it without "wanting" to. That's the real key.
. . they do through active non doing. Vajrayana is totally LHP - but this
does not mean that those from whole cultures that are Vajrayanists don't
have fun or do normal things. (This has nothing to do with the invention
called "Tantrik Sex," nor does it have a thing to do with breaking taboos.
These notions are totally modern, Western inventions of sex clubs.)

Mahayana is LHP in the sense that the reason for its existence is that it is
a path of knowing from the inner method even if it takes slow, methodical
steps to this knowledge. Mahayana is also RHP because it is the doing of
deeds that help the person "acquire" this knowledge.

Now. . . here is the important Truth. There is no conflict between these
paths if they are True; they are yin/yang and exist together and this
embodies real stratification in the sense of people naturally working at
their own abilities. I.e., what you are good at, naturally comes easy!
Because of this, there is always RHP in LHP, and always LHP in RHP. There is
the "Being" of the receptive LHP and then the "Becoming" which is the active
RHP. There is the Knowledge of the LHP that leads to the deeds of the RHP.
Everything is Yin and Yang. Passive Idea; Active Deed. Like Sat-Being and
Tan-Becoming.

To people at inner peace with themselves, the Dark Paths are Peaceful. They
are beautiful, soft, and solitary. . . This does not mean they are hermits;
not at all. There is nothing busy or hectic about the Dark Paths. They are
totally inner. When a person has an inner core which has been compromised by
cultural Christianity or something else, the best they can come up with is a
self-overcoming where they try, oftentimes in vain, to "fix" their broken
selves. In neurological terms, they lack the "organic I." These people
cannot know. The best thing for them is to join one of the pacifistic
liberal Christian Churches they rage against so at least they have rules
that prevent them from hurting themselves or others. What they don't
understand is that they cannot know, because they are not able to grasp the
knowledge that is at the Core of their Being. They often sublimate by
"getting interested in" rebellion: but against what? What exactly is it they
are rebelling against?

If they really want to revolt against tyranny, why are they sublimating? Why
don't they do something? Most of these types that "get into Satanism" are
inversionist Christians and they shove their "Christian shit" in our faces
as much or more than Fundamentalist Christians shove the Christian shit in
our faces. They reek of Christianity, and within them it's an infection they
try to get out of their systems by screaming and wailing about it and
turning it all upside down. Satanists don't want to hear it. An American
flag side ways or upside down is recognizably still an American flag. And a
cross upside down is still a Cross. Same thing.

The RHP is the way of Yang. The LHP is the way of Yin. That's it. And like
Yin and Yang, you cannot separate the two. Yin/Dark/Receptive.
Yang/Light/Active.

But this is the danger of the Lie. . . when Right and Left become something
that are against each other, then the RHP is a false path.... a false Light.
And LHP is felt (not thought, but felt) to be frightening and evil. This
misconception, within a person, is the striving, craving for the Light Alone
rebelling to exist without the Dark Parent from whence it came. That is
truly self-destructive... The only people who understand what RHP and LHP
really are. . . and then also see these as separate and opposed. . . are
Klippoths. They see it opposed because they themselves are opposed to their
own shell-ish non-being. In otherwords, they know this Lie and Falsehood
through their own peculiar flesh!

Apparently, or so I'm told, there is some kind of Thelemite tradition that
has it that the LHP was derived from the thesis about Lucifer being God's
angel seated on His left. It spoke or taught of a more aggressive approach
to the occult and was adopted by many styles of magic, including early
Thelema. That puts a whole new slant on the confusion over LHP and RHP which
is, in fact, very new and exclusively Western, perhaps WASP only. Please
refer to "Which KINDS of Satanism" on this website. I am unable to locate a
thesis on this; it may be just the oral tradition of some groups of
Thelemites and never written down.

For the record, "Lucifer" was never used as the name for Satan or the Devil
until Milton used it. The other reference to Hilel for Nebuchadnezzar is a
mistranslation by Origin, as is pointed out in an essay entitled, "Satan Or
Lucifer - The Same? Or the Opposite!," in Package of Doctrines (on sale, see
the advertisement).

However, interestingly, from the Christian Bible: [Mat 25:32] Before him
will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate them one from another
as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats, [Mat 25:33] and he will
place the sheep at his right hand, but the goats at the left. Christians
have always referred to themselves as sheep. Satanists identify with the
Goat of Mendes. The Goat is actually Azazel, but Azazel alone was never
associated with the Hebrew ha stn (The Satan). The Hebrews did have a more
folkish tradition wherein they combined Samael, Leviathan (or Lilith) and
Azazal together to make "The Beast," or CHIVA. For more on this, please see
www.lylyth.org

The Standard Definition, even given in "Mind of the Ninja" by Dr. Petersen,
which he wrote and explained for a Western readership, is what we use in the
bonafide Dark Tradition. This has nothing to do with behavior, or with
rebellion. In fact, the entire Promethian (or Luciferian) tradition in
regular Western Civilization, something that led to the industrial age and
technological age, are very RHP. Surely, the inspiration for such works was
originally LHP in that it was inspired; but making these marvels of
technology manifest is an act that is purely an example of RHP. More or
less, the inventors took what was darkly inspired and brought it into the
light to be seen and used by all.

If anything, rebellion and revolt against unjust societies (very bloody
usually) are Yang - ergo RPH according to the way we ubiquitously understand
things. I've given the standard definition in this article. The Encyclopedia
of Buddhism, which also defines Naga Shivaism, something much older, has
this same definition and anyone that takes the "above" and synthesizes it
with the "below" can clearly see this.. Even Kung Fu, the way they define
yin and yang forms, fits this definition.
unknown
2005-08-10 01:52:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alabaster
Hello,
Some recent discussion on the list has touched upon the Left Hand Path
in relation to the Temple of Set and the Set Movement generally as well
as its contrast with the Right Hand Path.
I think it would be interesting to discuss what the Left Hand Path
means to people.
To me it is something outside of the Judeo/Christian POV predominate in the
USA.
Post by Alabaster
How do you see these distinctions? If you see yourself as a
follower/adept of the Left Hand Path, what does that mean to you, and
what are the sources of your views--personal, documentary and
initiatory?
I used to take this stuff quite seriously after my faith in Mormonism waned.
In fact, I found by study of some of the Masonic/OTO rituals a lot of
"borrowing" took place by Joseph Smith. Some LDS scholars are finally
getting around to acknowledging this, but they claim the stuff common to
craft work and the Mormon faith comes from the same "older source." When you
try to pin them down on what they mean by this, they often turn a deaf ear.

Now I'm just your average garden variety atheist. A study of what I
consider the LHP got me to look at a lot of different religious schemas and
see interesting common patterns within most religious faiths including
Satanism (no matter how you define it). What I gained from the LHP is a
questioning of the religious cultural conditioning that most of us go
through.
Post by Alabaster
I see myself as more or less a follower of the Right Hand Path, but not
defined in the traditional way, in many respects my own path is
Leftwardly. For myself, I really personally redefine both the Left and
Right Hand Paths as well as the Light and Dark Sides of the Force, ala
Lucas.
Where do you see yourself in this and how do you defend your position?
I don't. Crowley used to put people through and interesting religious
excercise. He'd give them a choice at the beginning to pick either the
"right" or "left" path. Being diabolical sorts, most of them chose the left,
but a few chose the right. No matter what path they took, they all ended up
in the same metaphorical place at the end of their journey. I think in some
ways people fight their inclinations, but eventually their true natures will
reveal themselves. So much for my thirty seconds of metaphysical bullshit.

Regards,

Harry Lime
www.harrylime.biz
Post by Alabaster
Regards,
Alabaster
alabastermushroom at gmail dot com
Alabaster
2005-08-10 05:02:34 UTC
Permalink
Dear Kori, Ryan and Harry,



Kori, well, I think that the Temple of Set and other Satanist groups
clearly identify with the Left Hand Path and it has a very particular
meaning for them. As far as borrowed symbols are concerned, most of
these groups are smart and thorough enough to define their own terms
and symbols...we should seek their meanings there.

I think there is a good deal of material on the definition of the Left
Hand Path and it would be interesting to get into it directly.
Personlly I would imagine that Stephen Flowers's book, The Lords of the
Left Hand Path would be the key volume for the review of this topic.

As far as Lucas is concerned, I think Star Wars is a perfectly apt
depiction of the tactics of the Left Hand Path. In my experience, it
is a veritable gold-mine of accurate real-life insights into the
political dynamics of the occult in totalitarian governments.

Thank you for the recommendation of The Germanization of Early Medieval
Christianity by James C. Russell (Oxford U. Press), I'll look for it.
Can you post any relevant text which clarifies your positions?

The Temple of Set reading list is entirely relevant to this topic. You
should post it, Kori. As well as bring all your smartypants LHP friends
to the review of this topic here.



Ryan, very interesting source, Levi.

Interesting observations on the Tree of Life, the Middle Path Magisters
and various seeming inconsistencies.

You say that the differences in India are matters of method, not of
aim. What is the aim to which you refer? And how would you
characterize the methods of the LHP and the RHP in this pursuit as you
understand them?



Interesting characterization, Harry, the Left Hand Path is something
which is most saliently described as something outside the
Judeo-Christian point of view. But then again who knows, perhaps the
Catholic Church is in fact an LHP organization.

Interesting reference to Mormonism, Harry. Curious spiritual roots for
many "mainstreaming" religions, Mormonism, Scientology, etc.

Mmhmm, the LHP encourages us to reconsider things in many ways it would
seem.

True natures tend to reveal themselves over time, no question, but in
many instances we are all children. What parents teach us perhaps
comprises an important feature of what we believe our natures can
indeed even become.



Again, beyond my own personal impressions on this topic I am
particularly interested in getting things from the horse's mouth, so
let's visit.

An excellent source of material on the Left Hand Path which I've read
is the Schrecks's Demons of the Flesh. I may post some lengthy
excerpts to the thread, but I have become ever so leery FOR FEAR OF
PERSNICKETY COPYRIGHT TATTLETALES! Oh how the Dark Side weaves its
cruel webs of fear. But in the interim, we can consult a short excerpt
presented with permission on the Storm's web site.

Essential Principles of the Left-Hand Path
http://www.voiceofthestorm.com/essentialprinciplesofthelefthandpath.html


One of the most salient features to me of the Left Hand Path is the
commitment to taboo-breaking.

On this list it is step 3:

"3.) Initiation through the deliberate violation of deep-seated
external social and internal personal taboos, the individual separation
from tribal normative values, and the radical inversion of convention
and orthodoxy of every kind."

In another post, Tani was saying that she believed that the Left Hand
Path was simply a meditative and non-active tradition, the Shrecks seem
to vehemently disagree with this idea of the LHP.

Quoting again:

"Left-hand path initiation, however, cannot be limited to a merely
intellectual break with the herd-animal man. As the proverb above makes
clear, these transgressions [of traditional moral orthodoxy] must be
deeds, physical actions, taken in the real world to truly effect
self-transformation. It is not only what the left-hand path initiate
thinks that situates him or her in the sinister current; it is what he
or she does. The left-hand path is a way of action, not intellectual
contemplation, or worse yet, reading about action."

Just musing about this, one could consider what traditional moral
orthodoxy takes to be taboo and then consider violating these taboos in
order to imagine what is entailed here. For people familiar with the
details of the tradition it is already well-known what some taboos
which are ritually broken are. I think this commitment to spiritually
validating if not mandating the breaking of traditional moral taboos
places the adept of the Left Hand Path on a collision course with
essentially admitting to the willingness if not obligation to commit
all of the various crimes which have been attributed to him in history.

You've got a really tough time of seeming fair in shouting down even
the most outrageous of accusations, because in essence, it's "against
your religion" not to perform such crimes.

Curiouser and curiouser.


What other impressions about the Left Hand Path, Right Hand Path do you
have and what are your sources? Do you feel that it is important to
your own self-conception to clarify this issue?


Regards,


Alabaster


alabastermushroom at gmail dot com
Kori Houghton
2005-08-10 20:34:09 UTC
Permalink
Greetings Al, Harry and Ryan --

Here's a link to a discussion of this topic currently taking place on
another chat board.

I think it's relevant and worth a read for several reasons:

-- It suggests an agenda behind those (the freaking' TOSsers LOL) who
are promoting a contrived concept of 'Western LHP'

-- It shows the comical aspects of said agenda in that its proponents
tend to be less articulate and less informed than their opponents,
suggesting that their program of revising a religion for 'the herd'
with themselves on the throne needs _a lot_ more work

-- As one poster observed, the TOSsers demonstrate that their
fabricated version of LHP involves a group plan for (ahem) herd control
at the expense of simple individual spiritual development and pursuits;
so who is the 'herd' and who the 'goats'?

All in all, a fun bit of Don Webbism in action!

http://www.occultforums.com/showthread.php?t=17832

Luv,
Kori


--
Post by Alabaster
Dear Kori, Ryan and Harry,
Kori, well, I think that the Temple of Set and other Satanist groups
clearly identify with the Left Hand Path and it has a very particular
meaning for them. As far as borrowed symbols are concerned, most of
these groups are smart and thorough enough to define their own terms
and symbols...we should seek their meanings there.
I think there is a good deal of material on the definition of the Left
Hand Path and it would be interesting to get into it directly.
Personlly I would imagine that Stephen Flowers's book, The Lords of the
Left Hand Path would be the key volume for the review of this topic.
As far as Lucas is concerned, I think Star Wars is a perfectly apt
depiction of the tactics of the Left Hand Path. In my experience, it
is a veritable gold-mine of accurate real-life insights into the
political dynamics of the occult in totalitarian governments.
Thank you for the recommendation of The Germanization of Early Medieval
Christianity by James C. Russell (Oxford U. Press), I'll look for it.
Can you post any relevant text which clarifies your positions?
The Temple of Set reading list is entirely relevant to this topic. You
should post it, Kori. As well as bring all your smartypants LHP friends
to the review of this topic here.
Ryan, very interesting source, Levi.
Interesting observations on the Tree of Life, the Middle Path Magisters
and various seeming inconsistencies.
You say that the differences in India are matters of method, not of
aim. What is the aim to which you refer? And how would you
characterize the methods of the LHP and the RHP in this pursuit as you
understand them?
Interesting characterization, Harry, the Left Hand Path is something
which is most saliently described as something outside the
Judeo-Christian point of view. But then again who knows, perhaps the
Catholic Church is in fact an LHP organization.
Interesting reference to Mormonism, Harry. Curious spiritual roots for
many "mainstreaming" religions, Mormonism, Scientology, etc.
Mmhmm, the LHP encourages us to reconsider things in many ways it would
seem.
True natures tend to reveal themselves over time, no question, but in
many instances we are all children. What parents teach us perhaps
comprises an important feature of what we believe our natures can
indeed even become.
Again, beyond my own personal impressions on this topic I am
particularly interested in getting things from the horse's mouth, so
let's visit.
An excellent source of material on the Left Hand Path which I've read
is the Schrecks's Demons of the Flesh. I may post some lengthy
excerpts to the thread, but I have become ever so leery FOR FEAR OF
PERSNICKETY COPYRIGHT TATTLETALES! Oh how the Dark Side weaves its
cruel webs of fear. But in the interim, we can consult a short excerpt
presented with permission on the Storm's web site.
Essential Principles of the Left-Hand Path
http://www.voiceofthestorm.com/essentialprinciplesofthelefthandpath.html
One of the most salient features to me of the Left Hand Path is the
commitment to taboo-breaking.
"3.) Initiation through the deliberate violation of deep-seated
external social and internal personal taboos, the individual separation
from tribal normative values, and the radical inversion of convention
and orthodoxy of every kind."
In another post, Tani was saying that she believed that the Left Hand
Path was simply a meditative and non-active tradition, the Shrecks seem
to vehemently disagree with this idea of the LHP.
"Left-hand path initiation, however, cannot be limited to a merely
intellectual break with the herd-animal man. As the proverb above makes
clear, these transgressions [of traditional moral orthodoxy] must be
deeds, physical actions, taken in the real world to truly effect
self-transformation. It is not only what the left-hand path initiate
thinks that situates him or her in the sinister current; it is what he
or she does. The left-hand path is a way of action, not intellectual
contemplation, or worse yet, reading about action."
Just musing about this, one could consider what traditional moral
orthodoxy takes to be taboo and then consider violating these taboos in
order to imagine what is entailed here. For people familiar with the
details of the tradition it is already well-known what some taboos
which are ritually broken are. I think this commitment to spiritually
validating if not mandating the breaking of traditional moral taboos
places the adept of the Left Hand Path on a collision course with
essentially admitting to the willingness if not obligation to commit
all of the various crimes which have been attributed to him in history.
You've got a really tough time of seeming fair in shouting down even
the most outrageous of accusations, because in essence, it's "against
your religion" not to perform such crimes.
Curiouser and curiouser.
What other impressions about the Left Hand Path, Right Hand Path do you
have and what are your sources? Do you feel that it is important to
your own self-conception to clarify this issue?
Regards,
Alabaster
alabastermushroom at gmail dot com
unknown
2005-08-11 02:18:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kori Houghton
Greetings Al, Harry and Ryan --
Here's a link to a discussion of this topic currently taking place on
another chat board.
-- It suggests an agenda behind those (the freaking' TOSsers LOL) who
are promoting a contrived concept of 'Western LHP'c
Frankly I think that most, if not all, of the Occult is contrived.
Post by Kori Houghton
-- It shows the comical aspects of said agenda in that its proponents
tend to be less articulate and less informed than their opponents,
suggesting that their program of revising a religion for 'the herd'
with themselves on the throne needs _a lot_ more work.
The whole elitist ideology of the Occult smells very Christian to me.
Substitute "Eliteism" of any LHP movement and you have a pretty similar idea
with the Christian idea of the "Sanctified," "Saints," or any other
Christian label that separates the proverbial "wheat from the chaff." From
what I can see of the people really in power like Warren Buffett, they often
downplay their resources. I don't think that you gain power over the mass
people by informing them that you're "better" than they are -- odd how this
is lost to most of the organized Satanic groups out there.
Post by Kori Houghton
-- As one poster observed, the TOSsers demonstrate that their
fabricated version of LHP involves a group plan for (ahem) herd control
at the expense of simple individual spiritual development and pursuits;
so who is the 'herd' and who the 'goats'?
All in all, a fun bit of Don Webbism in action!
Sure it isn't Pinky and The Brain with Eddie Munster brows and a widow's
peak?

Regards,

Harry Lime
www.harrylime.biz
Post by Kori Houghton
http://www.occultforums.com/showthread.php?t=17832
Luv,
Kori
--
Post by Alabaster
Dear Kori, Ryan and Harry,
Kori, well, I think that the Temple of Set and other Satanist groups
clearly identify with the Left Hand Path and it has a very particular
meaning for them. As far as borrowed symbols are concerned, most of
these groups are smart and thorough enough to define their own terms
and symbols...we should seek their meanings there.
I think there is a good deal of material on the definition of the Left
Hand Path and it would be interesting to get into it directly.
Personlly I would imagine that Stephen Flowers's book, The Lords of the
Left Hand Path would be the key volume for the review of this topic.
As far as Lucas is concerned, I think Star Wars is a perfectly apt
depiction of the tactics of the Left Hand Path. In my experience, it
is a veritable gold-mine of accurate real-life insights into the
political dynamics of the occult in totalitarian governments.
Thank you for the recommendation of The Germanization of Early Medieval
Christianity by James C. Russell (Oxford U. Press), I'll look for it.
Can you post any relevant text which clarifies your positions?
The Temple of Set reading list is entirely relevant to this topic. You
should post it, Kori. As well as bring all your smartypants LHP friends
to the review of this topic here.
Ryan, very interesting source, Levi.
Interesting observations on the Tree of Life, the Middle Path Magisters
and various seeming inconsistencies.
You say that the differences in India are matters of method, not of
aim. What is the aim to which you refer? And how would you
characterize the methods of the LHP and the RHP in this pursuit as you
understand them?
Interesting characterization, Harry, the Left Hand Path is something
which is most saliently described as something outside the
Judeo-Christian point of view. But then again who knows, perhaps the
Catholic Church is in fact an LHP organization.
Interesting reference to Mormonism, Harry. Curious spiritual roots for
many "mainstreaming" religions, Mormonism, Scientology, etc.
Mmhmm, the LHP encourages us to reconsider things in many ways it would
seem.
True natures tend to reveal themselves over time, no question, but in
many instances we are all children. What parents teach us perhaps
comprises an important feature of what we believe our natures can
indeed even become.
Again, beyond my own personal impressions on this topic I am
particularly interested in getting things from the horse's mouth, so
let's visit.
An excellent source of material on the Left Hand Path which I've read
is the Schrecks's Demons of the Flesh. I may post some lengthy
excerpts to the thread, but I have become ever so leery FOR FEAR OF
PERSNICKETY COPYRIGHT TATTLETALES! Oh how the Dark Side weaves its
cruel webs of fear. But in the interim, we can consult a short excerpt
presented with permission on the Storm's web site.
Essential Principles of the Left-Hand Path
http://www.voiceofthestorm.com/essentialprinciplesofthelefthandpath.html
One of the most salient features to me of the Left Hand Path is the
commitment to taboo-breaking.
"3.) Initiation through the deliberate violation of deep-seated
external social and internal personal taboos, the individual separation
from tribal normative values, and the radical inversion of convention
and orthodoxy of every kind."
In another post, Tani was saying that she believed that the Left Hand
Path was simply a meditative and non-active tradition, the Shrecks seem
to vehemently disagree with this idea of the LHP.
"Left-hand path initiation, however, cannot be limited to a merely
intellectual break with the herd-animal man. As the proverb above makes
clear, these transgressions [of traditional moral orthodoxy] must be
deeds, physical actions, taken in the real world to truly effect
self-transformation. It is not only what the left-hand path initiate
thinks that situates him or her in the sinister current; it is what he
or she does. The left-hand path is a way of action, not intellectual
contemplation, or worse yet, reading about action."
Just musing about this, one could consider what traditional moral
orthodoxy takes to be taboo and then consider violating these taboos in
order to imagine what is entailed here. For people familiar with the
details of the tradition it is already well-known what some taboos
which are ritually broken are. I think this commitment to spiritually
validating if not mandating the breaking of traditional moral taboos
places the adept of the Left Hand Path on a collision course with
essentially admitting to the willingness if not obligation to commit
all of the various crimes which have been attributed to him in history.
You've got a really tough time of seeming fair in shouting down even
the most outrageous of accusations, because in essence, it's "against
your religion" not to perform such crimes.
Curiouser and curiouser.
What other impressions about the Left Hand Path, Right Hand Path do you
have and what are your sources? Do you feel that it is important to
your own self-conception to clarify this issue?
Regards,
Alabaster
alabastermushroom at gmail dot com
Kori Houghton
2005-08-11 05:59:51 UTC
Permalink
Hare Harry! Please see in likewise...
Post by unknown
Post by Kori Houghton
Greetings Al, Harry and Ryan --
Here's a link to a discussion of this topic currently taking place on
another chat board.
-- It suggests an agenda behind those (the freaking' TOSsers LOL) who
are promoting a contrived concept of 'Western LHP'c
Frankly I think that most, if not all, of the Occult is contrived.
You'd be right about that. Then there is elegant contriving and
buffoonish contriving. It's all entertaining, each in its own way.
Post by unknown
Post by Kori Houghton
-- It shows the comical aspects of said agenda in that its proponents
tend to be less articulate and less informed than their opponents,
suggesting that their program of revising a religion for 'the herd'
with themselves on the throne needs _a lot_ more work.
The whole elitist ideology of the Occult smells very Christian to me.
Substitute "Eliteism" of any LHP movement and you have a pretty similar idea
with the Christian idea of the "Sanctified," "Saints," or any other
Christian label that separates the proverbial "wheat from the chaff."
Ah, Harry! You're giving it all away here LOL! Well, maybe not all of
it, but a good bit anyway.
Post by unknown
From
what I can see of the people really in power like Warren Buffett, they often
downplay their resources. I don't think that you gain power over the mass
people by informing them that you're "better" than they are -- odd how this
is lost to most of the organized Satanic groups out there.
Damn straight. Besides, it is possible that an individual might carry
off some self-promotion with a bit more cred than 'all your base are
belong to us'. But this hyothetical person would have to write well
enough to come across as intelligent, witty, and creatively
manipulative to do that on a chat board...and not be laughed off into
dismissal. Uh, supposing the chat board participants had at least half
a brain.
Post by unknown
Post by Kori Houghton
-- As one poster observed, the TOSsers demonstrate that their
fabricated version of LHP involves a group plan for (ahem) herd control
at the expense of simple individual spiritual development and pursuits;
so who is the 'herd' and who the 'goats'?
All in all, a fun bit of Don Webbism in action!
Sure it isn't Pinky and The Brain with Eddie Munster brows and a widow's
peak?
Dunno Pinky and The Brain -- I'm culturally deprived, I guess. You
could say I was 'talking to the hand'. As in the one up Webb's
posterior?

Kori
Post by unknown
Regards,
Harry Lime
www.harrylime.biz
Post by Kori Houghton
http://www.occultforums.com/showthread.php?t=17832
Luv,
Kori
--
Post by Alabaster
Dear Kori, Ryan and Harry,
Kori, well, I think that the Temple of Set and other Satanist groups
clearly identify with the Left Hand Path and it has a very particular
meaning for them. As far as borrowed symbols are concerned, most of
these groups are smart and thorough enough to define their own terms
and symbols...we should seek their meanings there.
I think there is a good deal of material on the definition of the Left
Hand Path and it would be interesting to get into it directly.
Personlly I would imagine that Stephen Flowers's book, The Lords of the
Left Hand Path would be the key volume for the review of this topic.
As far as Lucas is concerned, I think Star Wars is a perfectly apt
depiction of the tactics of the Left Hand Path. In my experience, it
is a veritable gold-mine of accurate real-life insights into the
political dynamics of the occult in totalitarian governments.
Thank you for the recommendation of The Germanization of Early Medieval
Christianity by James C. Russell (Oxford U. Press), I'll look for it.
Can you post any relevant text which clarifies your positions?
The Temple of Set reading list is entirely relevant to this topic. You
should post it, Kori. As well as bring all your smartypants LHP friends
to the review of this topic here.
Ryan, very interesting source, Levi.
Interesting observations on the Tree of Life, the Middle Path Magisters
and various seeming inconsistencies.
You say that the differences in India are matters of method, not of
aim. What is the aim to which you refer? And how would you
characterize the methods of the LHP and the RHP in this pursuit as you
understand them?
Interesting characterization, Harry, the Left Hand Path is something
which is most saliently described as something outside the
Judeo-Christian point of view. But then again who knows, perhaps the
Catholic Church is in fact an LHP organization.
Interesting reference to Mormonism, Harry. Curious spiritual roots for
many "mainstreaming" religions, Mormonism, Scientology, etc.
Mmhmm, the LHP encourages us to reconsider things in many ways it would
seem.
True natures tend to reveal themselves over time, no question, but in
many instances we are all children. What parents teach us perhaps
comprises an important feature of what we believe our natures can
indeed even become.
Again, beyond my own personal impressions on this topic I am
particularly interested in getting things from the horse's mouth, so
let's visit.
An excellent source of material on the Left Hand Path which I've read
is the Schrecks's Demons of the Flesh. I may post some lengthy
excerpts to the thread, but I have become ever so leery FOR FEAR OF
PERSNICKETY COPYRIGHT TATTLETALES! Oh how the Dark Side weaves its
cruel webs of fear. But in the interim, we can consult a short excerpt
presented with permission on the Storm's web site.
Essential Principles of the Left-Hand Path
http://www.voiceofthestorm.com/essentialprinciplesofthelefthandpath.html
One of the most salient features to me of the Left Hand Path is the
commitment to taboo-breaking.
"3.) Initiation through the deliberate violation of deep-seated
external social and internal personal taboos, the individual separation
from tribal normative values, and the radical inversion of convention
and orthodoxy of every kind."
In another post, Tani was saying that she believed that the Left Hand
Path was simply a meditative and non-active tradition, the Shrecks seem
to vehemently disagree with this idea of the LHP.
"Left-hand path initiation, however, cannot be limited to a merely
intellectual break with the herd-animal man. As the proverb above makes
clear, these transgressions [of traditional moral orthodoxy] must be
deeds, physical actions, taken in the real world to truly effect
self-transformation. It is not only what the left-hand path initiate
thinks that situates him or her in the sinister current; it is what he
or she does. The left-hand path is a way of action, not intellectual
contemplation, or worse yet, reading about action."
Just musing about this, one could consider what traditional moral
orthodoxy takes to be taboo and then consider violating these taboos in
order to imagine what is entailed here. For people familiar with the
details of the tradition it is already well-known what some taboos
which are ritually broken are. I think this commitment to spiritually
validating if not mandating the breaking of traditional moral taboos
places the adept of the Left Hand Path on a collision course with
essentially admitting to the willingness if not obligation to commit
all of the various crimes which have been attributed to him in history.
You've got a really tough time of seeming fair in shouting down even
the most outrageous of accusations, because in essence, it's "against
your religion" not to perform such crimes.
Curiouser and curiouser.
What other impressions about the Left Hand Path, Right Hand Path do you
have and what are your sources? Do you feel that it is important to
your own self-conception to clarify this issue?
Regards,
Alabaster
alabastermushroom at gmail dot com
unknown
2005-08-11 13:16:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kori Houghton
Post by unknown
Post by Kori Houghton
Here's a link to a discussion of this topic currently taking place on
another chat board.
-- It suggests an agenda behind those (the freaking' TOSsers LOL) who
are promoting a contrived concept of 'Western LHP'c
Frankly I think that most, if not all, of the Occult is contrived.
You'd be right about that. Then there is elegant contriving and
buffoonish contriving. It's all entertaining, each in its own way.
Very true. I really like a good yarn and most of the LHP is pretty poorly
put together. Some of it is interesting. What fascinates me is the group
dynamics more than anything else. "Lord of The Flies on Acid" in some ways.
Not to change the subject, but I think Pynchon realizes this and puts it in
some of his works.
Post by Kori Houghton
Post by unknown
Post by Kori Houghton
-- It shows the comical aspects of said agenda in that its proponents
tend to be less articulate and less informed than their opponents,
suggesting that their program of revising a religion for 'the herd'
with themselves on the throne needs _a lot_ more work.
The whole elitist ideology of the Occult smells very Christian to me.
Substitute "Eliteism" of any LHP movement and you have a pretty similar idea
with the Christian idea of the "Sanctified," "Saints," or any other
Christian label that separates the proverbial "wheat from the chaff."
Ah, Harry! You're giving it all away here LOL! Well, maybe not all of
it, but a good bit anyway.
I hope no one mistakes my cynical tittering at some of the groups mentioned
with some sort of Gandhiesque "love of humanity" crap either. Most people
that fetishize Gandhi-ji don't realize that he really hated Blacks which I
find the ultimate irony. Here's a fun listing:
http://www.trinicenter.com/WorldNews/ghandi4.htm
"It is one thing to register natives who would not work, and whom it is very
difficult to find out if they absent themselves, but it is another thing-and
most insulting-to expect decent, hard-working, and respectable Indians,
whose only fault is that they work too much, to have themselves registered
and carry with them registration badges." There are many more examples from
this page.
Post by Kori Houghton
Post by unknown
From
what I can see of the people really in power like Warren Buffett, they often
downplay their resources. I don't think that you gain power over the mass
people by informing them that you're "better" than they are -- odd how this
is lost to most of the organized Satanic groups out there.
Damn straight. Besides, it is possible that an individual might carry
off some self-promotion with a bit more cred than 'all your base are
belong to us'. But this hyothetical person would have to write well
enough to come across as intelligent, witty, and creatively
manipulative to do that on a chat board...and not be laughed off into
dismissal. Uh, supposing the chat board participants had at least half
a brain.
I read that propaganda, er, chat-board and wasn't impressed. I do find the
overt attempts at controlling the flow of information to be amateurish at
best. Kinda reads like alt.satanism, no? LOL!
Post by Kori Houghton
Post by unknown
Post by Kori Houghton
-- As one poster observed, the TOSsers demonstrate that their
fabricated version of LHP involves a group plan for (ahem) herd control
at the expense of simple individual spiritual development and pursuits;
so who is the 'herd' and who the 'goats'?
All in all, a fun bit of Don Webbism in action!
Sure it isn't Pinky and The Brain with Eddie Munster brows and a widow's
peak?
Dunno Pinky and The Brain -- I'm culturally deprived, I guess. You
could say I was 'talking to the hand'. As in the one up Webb's
posterior?
Pinky and The Brain is a very funny cartoon on tee vee. It focuses on the
lives of two lab rats, one a super genius rodent the other his erstwhile
bumbling companion. The Brain wants "world domination" with himself as the
titular head and often Pinky, his ever faithful follower, screws things up.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0112123/

One that's most applicable to those of the LHP can be found here:
http://snowball.frogspace.net/labnotes/pb002a_1

Regards,

Harry Lime
www.harrylime.biz
Post by Kori Houghton
Kori
Post by unknown
Regards,
Harry Lime
www.harrylime.biz
Post by Kori Houghton
http://www.occultforums.com/showthread.php?t=17832
Luv,
Kori
--
Post by Alabaster
Dear Kori, Ryan and Harry,
Kori, well, I think that the Temple of Set and other Satanist groups
clearly identify with the Left Hand Path and it has a very particular
meaning for them. As far as borrowed symbols are concerned, most of
these groups are smart and thorough enough to define their own terms
and symbols...we should seek their meanings there.
I think there is a good deal of material on the definition of the Left
Hand Path and it would be interesting to get into it directly.
Personlly I would imagine that Stephen Flowers's book, The Lords of the
Left Hand Path would be the key volume for the review of this topic.
As far as Lucas is concerned, I think Star Wars is a perfectly apt
depiction of the tactics of the Left Hand Path. In my experience, it
is a veritable gold-mine of accurate real-life insights into the
political dynamics of the occult in totalitarian governments.
Thank you for the recommendation of The Germanization of Early Medieval
Christianity by James C. Russell (Oxford U. Press), I'll look for it.
Can you post any relevant text which clarifies your positions?
The Temple of Set reading list is entirely relevant to this topic.
You
should post it, Kori. As well as bring all your smartypants LHP friends
to the review of this topic here.
Ryan, very interesting source, Levi.
Interesting observations on the Tree of Life, the Middle Path Magisters
and various seeming inconsistencies.
You say that the differences in India are matters of method, not of
aim. What is the aim to which you refer? And how would you
characterize the methods of the LHP and the RHP in this pursuit as you
understand them?
Interesting characterization, Harry, the Left Hand Path is something
which is most saliently described as something outside the
Judeo-Christian point of view. But then again who knows, perhaps the
Catholic Church is in fact an LHP organization.
Interesting reference to Mormonism, Harry. Curious spiritual roots for
many "mainstreaming" religions, Mormonism, Scientology, etc.
Mmhmm, the LHP encourages us to reconsider things in many ways it would
seem.
True natures tend to reveal themselves over time, no question, but in
many instances we are all children. What parents teach us perhaps
comprises an important feature of what we believe our natures can
indeed even become.
Again, beyond my own personal impressions on this topic I am
particularly interested in getting things from the horse's mouth, so
let's visit.
An excellent source of material on the Left Hand Path which I've read
is the Schrecks's Demons of the Flesh. I may post some lengthy
excerpts to the thread, but I have become ever so leery FOR FEAR OF
PERSNICKETY COPYRIGHT TATTLETALES! Oh how the Dark Side weaves its
cruel webs of fear. But in the interim, we can consult a short excerpt
presented with permission on the Storm's web site.
Essential Principles of the Left-Hand Path
http://www.voiceofthestorm.com/essentialprinciplesofthelefthandpath.html
One of the most salient features to me of the Left Hand Path is the
commitment to taboo-breaking.
"3.) Initiation through the deliberate violation of deep-seated
external social and internal personal taboos, the individual separation
from tribal normative values, and the radical inversion of convention
and orthodoxy of every kind."
In another post, Tani was saying that she believed that the Left Hand
Path was simply a meditative and non-active tradition, the Shrecks seem
to vehemently disagree with this idea of the LHP.
"Left-hand path initiation, however, cannot be limited to a merely
intellectual break with the herd-animal man. As the proverb above makes
clear, these transgressions [of traditional moral orthodoxy] must be
deeds, physical actions, taken in the real world to truly effect
self-transformation. It is not only what the left-hand path initiate
thinks that situates him or her in the sinister current; it is what he
or she does. The left-hand path is a way of action, not intellectual
contemplation, or worse yet, reading about action."
Just musing about this, one could consider what traditional moral
orthodoxy takes to be taboo and then consider violating these taboos in
order to imagine what is entailed here. For people familiar with the
details of the tradition it is already well-known what some taboos
which are ritually broken are. I think this commitment to spiritually
validating if not mandating the breaking of traditional moral taboos
places the adept of the Left Hand Path on a collision course with
essentially admitting to the willingness if not obligation to commit
all of the various crimes which have been attributed to him in history.
You've got a really tough time of seeming fair in shouting down even
the most outrageous of accusations, because in essence, it's "against
your religion" not to perform such crimes.
Curiouser and curiouser.
What other impressions about the Left Hand Path, Right Hand Path do you
have and what are your sources? Do you feel that it is important to
your own self-conception to clarify this issue?
Regards,
Alabaster
alabastermushroom at gmail dot com
unknown
2005-08-11 13:17:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kori Houghton
Post by unknown
Post by Kori Houghton
Here's a link to a discussion of this topic currently taking place on
another chat board.
-- It suggests an agenda behind those (the freaking' TOSsers LOL) who
are promoting a contrived concept of 'Western LHP'c
Frankly I think that most, if not all, of the Occult is contrived.
You'd be right about that. Then there is elegant contriving and
buffoonish contriving. It's all entertaining, each in its own way.
Very true. I really like a good yarn and most of the LHP is pretty poorly
put together. Some of it is interesting. What fascinates me is the group
dynamics more than anything else. "Lord of The Flies on Acid" in some ways.
Not to change the subject, but I think Pynchon realizes this and puts it in
some of his works.
Post by Kori Houghton
Post by unknown
Post by Kori Houghton
-- It shows the comical aspects of said agenda in that its proponents
tend to be less articulate and less informed than their opponents,
suggesting that their program of revising a religion for 'the herd'
with themselves on the throne needs _a lot_ more work.
The whole elitist ideology of the Occult smells very Christian to me.
Substitute "Eliteism" of any LHP movement and you have a pretty similar idea
with the Christian idea of the "Sanctified," "Saints," or any other
Christian label that separates the proverbial "wheat from the chaff."
Ah, Harry! You're giving it all away here LOL! Well, maybe not all of
it, but a good bit anyway.
I hope no one mistakes my cynical tittering at some of the groups mentioned
with some sort of Gandhiesque "love of humanity" crap either. Most people
that fetishize Gandhi-ji don't realize that he really hated Blacks which I
find the ultimate irony. Here's a fun listing:
http://www.trinicenter.com/WorldNews/ghandi4.htm
"It is one thing to register natives who would not work, and whom it is very
difficult to find out if they absent themselves, but it is another thing-and
most insulting-to expect decent, hard-working, and respectable Indians,
whose only fault is that they work too much, to have themselves registered
and carry with them registration badges." There are many more examples from
this page.
Post by Kori Houghton
Post by unknown
From
what I can see of the people really in power like Warren Buffett, they often
downplay their resources. I don't think that you gain power over the mass
people by informing them that you're "better" than they are -- odd how this
is lost to most of the organized Satanic groups out there.
Damn straight. Besides, it is possible that an individual might carry
off some self-promotion with a bit more cred than 'all your base are
belong to us'. But this hyothetical person would have to write well
enough to come across as intelligent, witty, and creatively
manipulative to do that on a chat board...and not be laughed off into
dismissal. Uh, supposing the chat board participants had at least half
a brain.
I read that propaganda, er, chat-board and wasn't impressed. I do find the
overt attempts at controlling the flow of information to be amateurish at
best. Kinda reads like alt.satanism, no? LOL!
Post by Kori Houghton
Post by unknown
Post by Kori Houghton
-- As one poster observed, the TOSsers demonstrate that their
fabricated version of LHP involves a group plan for (ahem) herd control
at the expense of simple individual spiritual development and pursuits;
so who is the 'herd' and who the 'goats'?
All in all, a fun bit of Don Webbism in action!
Sure it isn't Pinky and The Brain with Eddie Munster brows and a widow's
peak?
Dunno Pinky and The Brain -- I'm culturally deprived, I guess. You
could say I was 'talking to the hand'. As in the one up Webb's
posterior?
Pinky and The Brain is a very funny cartoon on tee vee. It focuses on the
lives of two lab rats, one a super genius rodent the other his erstwhile
bumbling companion. The Brain wants "world domination" with himself as the
titular head and often Pinky, his ever faithful follower, screws things up.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0112123/

One that's most applicable to those of the LHP can be found here:
http://snowball.frogspace.net/labnotes/pb002a_1

Regards,

Harry Lime
www.harrylime.biz
Post by Kori Houghton
Kori
Post by unknown
Regards,
Harry Lime
www.harrylime.biz
Post by Kori Houghton
http://www.occultforums.com/showthread.php?t=17832
Luv,
Kori
--
Post by Alabaster
Dear Kori, Ryan and Harry,
Kori, well, I think that the Temple of Set and other Satanist groups
clearly identify with the Left Hand Path and it has a very particular
meaning for them. As far as borrowed symbols are concerned, most of
these groups are smart and thorough enough to define their own terms
and symbols...we should seek their meanings there.
I think there is a good deal of material on the definition of the Left
Hand Path and it would be interesting to get into it directly.
Personlly I would imagine that Stephen Flowers's book, The Lords of the
Left Hand Path would be the key volume for the review of this topic.
As far as Lucas is concerned, I think Star Wars is a perfectly apt
depiction of the tactics of the Left Hand Path. In my experience, it
is a veritable gold-mine of accurate real-life insights into the
political dynamics of the occult in totalitarian governments.
Thank you for the recommendation of The Germanization of Early Medieval
Christianity by James C. Russell (Oxford U. Press), I'll look for it.
Can you post any relevant text which clarifies your positions?
The Temple of Set reading list is entirely relevant to this topic.
You
should post it, Kori. As well as bring all your smartypants LHP friends
to the review of this topic here.
Ryan, very interesting source, Levi.
Interesting observations on the Tree of Life, the Middle Path Magisters
and various seeming inconsistencies.
You say that the differences in India are matters of method, not of
aim. What is the aim to which you refer? And how would you
characterize the methods of the LHP and the RHP in this pursuit as you
understand them?
Interesting characterization, Harry, the Left Hand Path is something
which is most saliently described as something outside the
Judeo-Christian point of view. But then again who knows, perhaps the
Catholic Church is in fact an LHP organization.
Interesting reference to Mormonism, Harry. Curious spiritual roots for
many "mainstreaming" religions, Mormonism, Scientology, etc.
Mmhmm, the LHP encourages us to reconsider things in many ways it would
seem.
True natures tend to reveal themselves over time, no question, but in
many instances we are all children. What parents teach us perhaps
comprises an important feature of what we believe our natures can
indeed even become.
Again, beyond my own personal impressions on this topic I am
particularly interested in getting things from the horse's mouth, so
let's visit.
An excellent source of material on the Left Hand Path which I've read
is the Schrecks's Demons of the Flesh. I may post some lengthy
excerpts to the thread, but I have become ever so leery FOR FEAR OF
PERSNICKETY COPYRIGHT TATTLETALES! Oh how the Dark Side weaves its
cruel webs of fear. But in the interim, we can consult a short excerpt
presented with permission on the Storm's web site.
Essential Principles of the Left-Hand Path
http://www.voiceofthestorm.com/essentialprinciplesofthelefthandpath.html
One of the most salient features to me of the Left Hand Path is the
commitment to taboo-breaking.
"3.) Initiation through the deliberate violation of deep-seated
external social and internal personal taboos, the individual separation
from tribal normative values, and the radical inversion of convention
and orthodoxy of every kind."
In another post, Tani was saying that she believed that the Left Hand
Path was simply a meditative and non-active tradition, the Shrecks seem
to vehemently disagree with this idea of the LHP.
"Left-hand path initiation, however, cannot be limited to a merely
intellectual break with the herd-animal man. As the proverb above makes
clear, these transgressions [of traditional moral orthodoxy] must be
deeds, physical actions, taken in the real world to truly effect
self-transformation. It is not only what the left-hand path initiate
thinks that situates him or her in the sinister current; it is what he
or she does. The left-hand path is a way of action, not intellectual
contemplation, or worse yet, reading about action."
Just musing about this, one could consider what traditional moral
orthodoxy takes to be taboo and then consider violating these taboos in
order to imagine what is entailed here. For people familiar with the
details of the tradition it is already well-known what some taboos
which are ritually broken are. I think this commitment to spiritually
validating if not mandating the breaking of traditional moral taboos
places the adept of the Left Hand Path on a collision course with
essentially admitting to the willingness if not obligation to commit
all of the various crimes which have been attributed to him in history.
You've got a really tough time of seeming fair in shouting down even
the most outrageous of accusations, because in essence, it's "against
your religion" not to perform such crimes.
Curiouser and curiouser.
What other impressions about the Left Hand Path, Right Hand Path do you
have and what are your sources? Do you feel that it is important to
your own self-conception to clarify this issue?
Regards,
Alabaster
alabastermushroom at gmail dot com
Kori Houghton
2005-08-15 05:58:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by unknown
Post by Kori Houghton
Post by unknown
Frankly I think that most, if not all, of the Occult is contrived.
You'd be right about that. Then there is elegant contriving and
buffoonish contriving. It's all entertaining, each in its own way.
Very true. I really like a good yarn and most of the LHP is pretty poorly
put together. Some of it is interesting. What fascinates me is the group
dynamics more than anything else.
Me. too. The idea of gangs of cult-conforming 'individualists' cracks
me up in a superbly ironic way. My guess is that the powers-that-be
(in the mundane sense, of course LOL) approve of occultnik gangs
because this kind of group posturing and squabbling keeps at least some
of the populace from meddling with them.
Post by unknown
"Lord of The Flies on Acid" in some ways.
Or on crack.
Post by unknown
Not to change the subject, but I think Pynchon realizes this and puts it in
some of his works.
He does! I think I've read all the novels now except for _Mason
Dixon_, I think the title was. Pynchon's books are a better send-up of
occultism than _Illuminatus_ or _Foucault's Pendulum_ IMO.
Post by unknown
Post by Kori Houghton
Ah, Harry! You're giving it all away here LOL! Well, maybe not all of
it, but a good bit anyway.
I hope no one mistakes my cynical tittering at some of the groups mentioned
with some sort of Gandhiesque "love of humanity" crap either. Most people
that fetishize Gandhi-ji don't realize that he really hated Blacks which I
http://www.trinicenter.com/WorldNews/ghandi4.htm
"It is one thing to register natives who would not work, and whom it is very
difficult to find out if they absent themselves, but it is another thing-and
most insulting-to expect decent, hard-working, and respectable Indians,
whose only fault is that they work too much, to have themselves registered
and carry with them registration badges." There are many more examples from
this page.
Yo Gandhi! Seriously, who really honestly actually loves "humanity"?
Post by unknown
Post by Kori Houghton
Damn straight. Besides, it is possible that an individual might carry
off some self-promotion with a bit more cred than 'all your base are
belong to us'. But this hyothetical person would have to write well
enough to come across as intelligent, witty, and creatively
manipulative to do that on a chat board...and not be laughed off into
dismissal. Uh, supposing the chat board participants had at least half
a brain.
I read that propaganda, er, chat-board and wasn't impressed. I do find the
overt attempts at controlling the flow of information to be amateurish at
best. Kinda reads like alt.satanism, no? LOL!
It might read like alt.satanism, but it's a heavily moderated board.
Whole threads have been known to vanish within the hour of some
participant getting real (which is not the same as flaming LOL) in a
heated discussion. Any participant can post stuff like 'I call on the
name of my magickal guardian angel spirit protector being and he
arrives in the form of the creaking floor board under my entertainment
center' or some such craparoo without anyone daring to say 'hey, you're
shittin' me, man!' It's funny there in a sad kind of way.
Post by unknown
Post by Kori Houghton
Post by unknown
Post by Kori Houghton
All in all, a fun bit of Don Webbism in action!
Sure it isn't Pinky and The Brain with Eddie Munster brows and a widow's
peak?
Dunno Pinky and The Brain -- I'm culturally deprived, I guess. You
could say I was 'talking to the hand'. As in the one up Webb's
posterior?
Pinky and The Brain is a very funny cartoon on tee vee. It focuses on the
lives of two lab rats, one a super genius rodent the other his erstwhile
bumbling companion. The Brain wants "world domination" with himself as the
titular head and often Pinky, his ever faithful follower, screws things up.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0112123/
http://snowball.frogspace.net/labnotes/pb002a_1
That must have been a funny show. Central PA doesn't have a WB
affiliate, and we were living in a cableless wasteland when it was on.
Damn. I dig the Orson Welles angle -- that sounds cool!

Luv,
Kori
Post by unknown
Regards,
Harry Lime
www.harrylime.biz
Post by Kori Houghton
Kori
Post by unknown
Regards,
Harry Lime
www.harrylime.biz
Post by Kori Houghton
http://www.occultforums.com/showthread.php?t=17832
Luv,
Kori
--
Post by Alabaster
Dear Kori, Ryan and Harry,
Kori, well, I think that the Temple of Set and other Satanist groups
clearly identify with the Left Hand Path and it has a very particular
meaning for them. As far as borrowed symbols are concerned, most of
these groups are smart and thorough enough to define their own terms
and symbols...we should seek their meanings there.
I think there is a good deal of material on the definition of the Left
Hand Path and it would be interesting to get into it directly.
Personlly I would imagine that Stephen Flowers's book, The Lords of the
Left Hand Path would be the key volume for the review of this topic.
As far as Lucas is concerned, I think Star Wars is a perfectly apt
depiction of the tactics of the Left Hand Path. In my experience, it
is a veritable gold-mine of accurate real-life insights into the
political dynamics of the occult in totalitarian governments.
Thank you for the recommendation of The Germanization of Early Medieval
Christianity by James C. Russell (Oxford U. Press), I'll look for it.
Can you post any relevant text which clarifies your positions?
The Temple of Set reading list is entirely relevant to this topic.
You
should post it, Kori. As well as bring all your smartypants LHP friends
to the review of this topic here.
Ryan, very interesting source, Levi.
Interesting observations on the Tree of Life, the Middle Path Magisters
and various seeming inconsistencies.
You say that the differences in India are matters of method, not of
aim. What is the aim to which you refer? And how would you
characterize the methods of the LHP and the RHP in this pursuit as you
understand them?
Interesting characterization, Harry, the Left Hand Path is something
which is most saliently described as something outside the
Judeo-Christian point of view. But then again who knows, perhaps the
Catholic Church is in fact an LHP organization.
Interesting reference to Mormonism, Harry. Curious spiritual roots for
many "mainstreaming" religions, Mormonism, Scientology, etc.
Mmhmm, the LHP encourages us to reconsider things in many ways it would
seem.
True natures tend to reveal themselves over time, no question, but in
many instances we are all children. What parents teach us perhaps
comprises an important feature of what we believe our natures can
indeed even become.
Again, beyond my own personal impressions on this topic I am
particularly interested in getting things from the horse's mouth, so
let's visit.
An excellent source of material on the Left Hand Path which I've read
is the Schrecks's Demons of the Flesh. I may post some lengthy
excerpts to the thread, but I have become ever so leery FOR FEAR OF
PERSNICKETY COPYRIGHT TATTLETALES! Oh how the Dark Side weaves its
cruel webs of fear. But in the interim, we can consult a short excerpt
presented with permission on the Storm's web site.
Essential Principles of the Left-Hand Path
http://www.voiceofthestorm.com/essentialprinciplesofthelefthandpath.html
One of the most salient features to me of the Left Hand Path is the
commitment to taboo-breaking.
"3.) Initiation through the deliberate violation of deep-seated
external social and internal personal taboos, the individual separation
from tribal normative values, and the radical inversion of convention
and orthodoxy of every kind."
In another post, Tani was saying that she believed that the Left Hand
Path was simply a meditative and non-active tradition, the Shrecks seem
to vehemently disagree with this idea of the LHP.
"Left-hand path initiation, however, cannot be limited to a merely
intellectual break with the herd-animal man. As the proverb above makes
clear, these transgressions [of traditional moral orthodoxy] must be
deeds, physical actions, taken in the real world to truly effect
self-transformation. It is not only what the left-hand path initiate
thinks that situates him or her in the sinister current; it is what he
or she does. The left-hand path is a way of action, not intellectual
contemplation, or worse yet, reading about action."
Just musing about this, one could consider what traditional moral
orthodoxy takes to be taboo and then consider violating these taboos in
order to imagine what is entailed here. For people familiar with the
details of the tradition it is already well-known what some taboos
which are ritually broken are. I think this commitment to spiritually
validating if not mandating the breaking of traditional moral taboos
places the adept of the Left Hand Path on a collision course with
essentially admitting to the willingness if not obligation to commit
all of the various crimes which have been attributed to him in history.
You've got a really tough time of seeming fair in shouting down even
the most outrageous of accusations, because in essence, it's "against
your religion" not to perform such crimes.
Curiouser and curiouser.
What other impressions about the Left Hand Path, Right Hand Path do you
have and what are your sources? Do you feel that it is important to
your own self-conception to clarify this issue?
Regards,
Alabaster
alabastermushroom at gmail dot com
unknown
2005-08-16 02:56:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kori Houghton
Post by unknown
Post by Kori Houghton
Post by unknown
Frankly I think that most, if not all, of the Occult is contrived.
You'd be right about that. Then there is elegant contriving and
buffoonish contriving. It's all entertaining, each in its own way.
Very true. I really like a good yarn and most of the LHP is pretty poorly
put together. Some of it is interesting. What fascinates me is the group
dynamics more than anything else.
Me. too. The idea of gangs of cult-conforming 'individualists' cracks
me up in a superbly ironic way.
Boy isn't that the truth. Some occult people I've encountered are pretty
silly. I used to take this stuff pretty seriously and when I did I always
thought the LHP was a solitary path. Today the major groups seem more about
conformity to their ideology than discovering "hidden truths." "Freedom is
slavery" and all. I personally find the anarchist bent in the occult more
interesting and diabolical than shocking people with Nazi and Dark Goth
fetishism. It's much more of a challenge to startle people within a middle
class context (and we're all 'middle class' in the States from Rodeo Drive
to the local mobile home park LOL!) than it is to wear a Baphomet, a goatee,
and quote LaVey. I'm not writing this to specifically disparage him or the
CoS as this could be equally relevant to the ToS -- these two groups being
the only ones of any significance IMO.
Post by Kori Houghton
My guess is that the powers-that-be
(in the mundane sense, of course LOL) approve of occultnik gangs
because this kind of group posturing and squabbling keeps at least some
of the populace from meddling with them.
Many of them (not all) are disenfranchised people from abusive Christian
homes and some have an amusing Monarchist twist with the imbecilic elitist
dogma. This acts as an amusing social control for people who might really
figure stuff out and try to enact some sort of revenge figuring they don't
have a lot to lose. I argue that the Satanists like Boyd Rice are much
better off displacing their anger with Walter Mittyesque flights-of-fancy
imagining they're misunderstood Merovingian royality rather than realizing
their willing poster boys for the Christian Coalition or the latest
"Satanism Special" on A&E.
Post by Kori Houghton
Post by unknown
"Lord of The Flies on Acid" in some ways.
Or on crack.
Post by unknown
Not to change the subject, but I think Pynchon realizes this and puts it in
some of his works.
He does! I think I've read all the novels now except for _Mason
Dixon_, I think the title was. Pynchon's books are a better send-up of
occultism than _Illuminatus_ or _Foucault's Pendulum_ IMO.
M&D is one of the best arguments I've read against aristocracy, slavery, and
Christian hypocracy. In my book the real occultists of the 20th Century were
Pynchon, Jack Parsons, Crowley, and Jung. The rest are just amusing
sideshows with LaVey being head of the class. (Too bad LaVey didn't turn his
rapier wit into something a bit more productive.)
Post by Kori Houghton
Post by unknown
Post by Kori Houghton
Ah, Harry! You're giving it all away here LOL! Well, maybe not all of
it, but a good bit anyway.
I hope no one mistakes my cynical tittering at some of the groups mentioned
with some sort of Gandhiesque "love of humanity" crap either. Most people
that fetishize Gandhi-ji don't realize that he really hated Blacks which I
http://www.trinicenter.com/WorldNews/ghandi4.htm
"It is one thing to register natives who would not work, and whom it is very
difficult to find out if they absent themselves, but it is another thing-and
most insulting-to expect decent, hard-working, and respectable Indians,
whose only fault is that they work too much, to have themselves registered
and carry with them registration badges." There are many more examples from
this page.
Yo Gandhi! Seriously, who really honestly actually loves "humanity"?
Got me. Most humans fall between the middle of the Bell Curve. What I find
interesting is people that migrate from one part to another.
Post by Kori Houghton
Post by unknown
Post by Kori Houghton
Damn straight. Besides, it is possible that an individual might carry
off some self-promotion with a bit more cred than 'all your base are
belong to us'. But this hyothetical person would have to write well
enough to come across as intelligent, witty, and creatively
manipulative to do that on a chat board...and not be laughed off into
dismissal. Uh, supposing the chat board participants had at least half
a brain.
I read that propaganda, er, chat-board and wasn't impressed. I do find the
overt attempts at controlling the flow of information to be amateurish at
best. Kinda reads like alt.satanism, no? LOL!
It might read like alt.satanism, but it's a heavily moderated board.
Whole threads have been known to vanish within the hour of some
participant getting real (which is not the same as flaming LOL) in a
heated discussion. Any participant can post stuff like 'I call on the
name of my magickal guardian angel spirit protector being and he
arrives in the form of the creaking floor board under my entertainment
center' or some such craparoo without anyone daring to say 'hey, you're
shittin' me, man!' It's funny there in a sad kind of way.
Creaking floor board? LOL!
Post by Kori Houghton
Post by unknown
Post by Kori Houghton
Post by unknown
Post by Kori Houghton
All in all, a fun bit of Don Webbism in action!
Sure it isn't Pinky and The Brain with Eddie Munster brows and a widow's
peak?
Dunno Pinky and The Brain -- I'm culturally deprived, I guess. You
could say I was 'talking to the hand'. As in the one up Webb's
posterior?
Pinky and The Brain is a very funny cartoon on tee vee. It focuses on the
lives of two lab rats, one a super genius rodent the other his erstwhile
bumbling companion. The Brain wants "world domination" with himself as the
titular head and often Pinky, his ever faithful follower, screws things up.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0112123/
http://snowball.frogspace.net/labnotes/pb002a_1
That must have been a funny show. Central PA doesn't have a WB
affiliate, and we were living in a cableless wasteland when it was on.
Damn. I dig the Orson Welles angle -- that sounds cool!
Damn funny show.

Regards,

Harry Lime
www.harrylime.biz
Post by Kori Houghton
Luv,
Kori
Post by unknown
Regards,
Harry Lime
www.harrylime.biz
Post by Kori Houghton
Kori
Post by unknown
Regards,
Harry Lime
www.harrylime.biz
Post by Kori Houghton
http://www.occultforums.com/showthread.php?t=17832
Luv,
Kori
--
Post by Alabaster
Dear Kori, Ryan and Harry,
Kori, well, I think that the Temple of Set and other Satanist groups
clearly identify with the Left Hand Path and it has a very particular
meaning for them. As far as borrowed symbols are concerned, most of
these groups are smart and thorough enough to define their own terms
and symbols...we should seek their meanings there.
I think there is a good deal of material on the definition of the Left
Hand Path and it would be interesting to get into it directly.
Personlly I would imagine that Stephen Flowers's book, The Lords of the
Left Hand Path would be the key volume for the review of this topic.
As far as Lucas is concerned, I think Star Wars is a perfectly apt
depiction of the tactics of the Left Hand Path. In my experience, it
is a veritable gold-mine of accurate real-life insights into the
political dynamics of the occult in totalitarian governments.
Thank you for the recommendation of The Germanization of Early Medieval
Christianity by James C. Russell (Oxford U. Press), I'll look for it.
Can you post any relevant text which clarifies your positions?
The Temple of Set reading list is entirely relevant to this topic.
You
should post it, Kori. As well as bring all your smartypants LHP friends
to the review of this topic here.
Ryan, very interesting source, Levi.
Interesting observations on the Tree of Life, the Middle Path Magisters
and various seeming inconsistencies.
You say that the differences in India are matters of method, not of
aim. What is the aim to which you refer? And how would you
characterize the methods of the LHP and the RHP in this pursuit as you
understand them?
Interesting characterization, Harry, the Left Hand Path is something
which is most saliently described as something outside the
Judeo-Christian point of view. But then again who knows, perhaps the
Catholic Church is in fact an LHP organization.
Interesting reference to Mormonism, Harry. Curious spiritual roots for
many "mainstreaming" religions, Mormonism, Scientology, etc.
Mmhmm, the LHP encourages us to reconsider things in many ways it would
seem.
True natures tend to reveal themselves over time, no question, but in
many instances we are all children. What parents teach us perhaps
comprises an important feature of what we believe our natures can
indeed even become.
Again, beyond my own personal impressions on this topic I am
particularly interested in getting things from the horse's mouth, so
let's visit.
An excellent source of material on the Left Hand Path which I've read
is the Schrecks's Demons of the Flesh. I may post some lengthy
excerpts to the thread, but I have become ever so leery FOR FEAR OF
PERSNICKETY COPYRIGHT TATTLETALES! Oh how the Dark Side weaves its
cruel webs of fear. But in the interim, we can consult a short excerpt
presented with permission on the Storm's web site.
Essential Principles of the Left-Hand Path
http://www.voiceofthestorm.com/essentialprinciplesofthelefthandpath.html
One of the most salient features to me of the Left Hand Path is the
commitment to taboo-breaking.
"3.) Initiation through the deliberate violation of deep-seated
external social and internal personal taboos, the individual separation
from tribal normative values, and the radical inversion of convention
and orthodoxy of every kind."
In another post, Tani was saying that she believed that the Left Hand
Path was simply a meditative and non-active tradition, the Shrecks seem
to vehemently disagree with this idea of the LHP.
"Left-hand path initiation, however, cannot be limited to a merely
intellectual break with the herd-animal man. As the proverb above makes
clear, these transgressions [of traditional moral orthodoxy] must be
deeds, physical actions, taken in the real world to truly effect
self-transformation. It is not only what the left-hand path initiate
thinks that situates him or her in the sinister current; it is what he
or she does. The left-hand path is a way of action, not
intellectual
contemplation, or worse yet, reading about action."
Just musing about this, one could consider what traditional moral
orthodoxy takes to be taboo and then consider violating these
taboos
in
order to imagine what is entailed here. For people familiar with the
details of the tradition it is already well-known what some taboos
which are ritually broken are. I think this commitment to spiritually
validating if not mandating the breaking of traditional moral taboos
places the adept of the Left Hand Path on a collision course with
essentially admitting to the willingness if not obligation to commit
all of the various crimes which have been attributed to him in history.
You've got a really tough time of seeming fair in shouting down even
the most outrageous of accusations, because in essence, it's "against
your religion" not to perform such crimes.
Curiouser and curiouser.
What other impressions about the Left Hand Path, Right Hand Path do you
have and what are your sources? Do you feel that it is important to
your own self-conception to clarify this issue?
Regards,
Alabaster
alabastermushroom at gmail dot com
Uncle Jimbo
2005-08-16 04:37:17 UTC
Permalink
"Harry Lime" <harrylime (at) harrylime (dot) teevee> wrote...
Post by unknown
It's much more of a challenge to startle people within a middle
class context (and we're all 'middle class' in the States from Rodeo Drive
to the local mobile home park LOL!) than it is to wear a Baphomet, a goatee,
and quote LaVey...
And the above describes me, are we that predictable? I trimmed my goatee this
morning, put on my silver pentagram, and went shopping. I think I even quoted
LaVey as I was watching "Serial Mom" and I mentioned his and the Rev. Manson's
belief that all people care about are dead celebrities and serial killers. The
pentagram is fun, if they are shocked they try to hide it and the sales clerks
are usually polite as am I. I guess it's not shocking enough, next time I
might draw an X on my forehead with a marker and pretend to be St. Charlie (and
I've done it before).

----------------------------------------------------------------------
"I think Charles Manson is the greatest rock star of all time. He was
all about music. He never even had to have a hit and he's one of the
biggest stars that you could ever find. That's something that we can
thank America for, whether you like it or not, America put him there."
-- Marilyn Manson; RIP Magazine, Feb. 1995
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tani Jantsang ©
2005-08-16 18:41:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by unknown
Many of them (not all) are disenfranchised people from abusive Christian
homes and some have an amusing Monarchist twist with the imbecilic elitist
dogma.
Uh huh - [tm TJ]

This acts as an amusing social control for people who might really
Post by unknown
figure stuff out and try to enact some sort of revenge figuring they don't
have a lot to lose. I argue that the Satanists like Boyd Rice are much
better off displacing their anger with Walter Mittyesque flights-of-fancy
imagining they're misunderstood Merovingian royality rather than realizing
their willing poster boys for the Christian Coalition or the latest
"Satanism Special" on A&E.
Let's continue then. All those that feel the need (will/focus) to do
ANYTHING to shock, impress, whatever "the herd" or anyone else, are STILL
stuck in the same circle, the same paradigm - they can not get out of it.
They are not LHP, they aren't even RHP because if they were RHP they'd at
least DO something that gains them real stuff, not ego bullshit like little
kids throwing a tantrum that never "got over it." LHP IS solitary, you are
right. It is a solitary path that one is either ON, or NOT ON.

The fact is, if you do something and even NOTICE that the herd or someone
irrelevant to you is NOTICING it, then either that person seriously butted
into your business, or if not, then you are STILL stuck in the same place,
doing something/anything FOR someone else's benefit in that sense.

EG, Harry, if I DO someone a favor, I usually have no freaking idea if I'll
ever even see that person again. I have no idea or thoughts about whether
or not that person thinks this or that about "the favor doer." It's done,
gone, finished. If I did this, it was 100% because it was as easy as
pouring myself coffee to do it - I was in the process of doing such anyway,
and that person just HAPPENED to be lucky enough to be there and get the
favor. That's it. I usually don't even remember I did anything.

LHP is innate, it is solitary, inner directed and highly nomadic and
unpredictable - as such it has come to be associated with chaos and such,
but people who make that association still have the wrong idea.

Put it this way - dogs can NOT understand cats. Leave it at that.
Kori Houghton
2005-08-16 19:53:33 UTC
Permalink
Yo, Harry! Please see in...
Post by unknown
Post by Kori Houghton
Me. too. The idea of gangs of cult-conforming 'individualists' cracks
me up in a superbly ironic way.
Boy isn't that the truth. Some occult people I've encountered are pretty
silly. I used to take this stuff pretty seriously and when I did I always
thought the LHP was a solitary path. Today the major groups seem more about
conformity to their ideology than discovering "hidden truths."
No kidding? One of them takes medium bright, undereducated, young
adults with non-conformist leanings and re-integrates them into happy
consumer bots. (They teach themselves that it's good to conform
because you are choosing to do so. Yeah, uh huh.)
Post by unknown
"Freedom is
slavery" and all.
Bingo!
Post by unknown
I personally find the anarchist bent in the occult more
interesting and diabolical than shocking people with Nazi and Dark Goth
fetishism. It's much more of a challenge to startle people within a middle
class context (and we're all 'middle class' in the States from Rodeo Drive
to the local mobile home park LOL!) than it is to wear a Baphomet, a goatee,
and quote LaVey. I'm not writing this to specifically disparage him or the
CoS as this could be equally relevant to the ToS -- these two groups being
the only ones of any significance IMO.
Ah, but folks with 'the anarchist bent' might be considered dangerous
LOL. It's much better to trick them into believing the true solitary
souls conform....by choice, because it's "Indulgence".
Post by unknown
Post by Kori Houghton
My guess is that the powers-that-be
(in the mundane sense, of course LOL) approve of occultnik gangs
because this kind of group posturing and squabbling keeps at least some
of the populace from meddling with them.
Many of them (not all) are disenfranchised people from abusive Christian
homes and some have an amusing Monarchist twist with the imbecilic elitist
dogma.
Yes, but not all of them.
Post by unknown
This acts as an amusing social control for people who might really
figure stuff out and try to enact some sort of revenge figuring they don't
have a lot to lose.
Which is why the group I am thinking of seeks young adults with limited
post-secondary education, average (at best) incomes, etc. and hooks
them on the consumer treadmill. It really is DoubleThink when someone
rants about "not caring for _things_", then switches gears to list
their latest purchases. LOLOLOL! Hey, I like to shop and I admit it.
Post by unknown
I argue that the Satanists like Boyd Rice are much
better off displacing their anger with Walter Mittyesque flights-of-fancy
imagining they're misunderstood Merovingian royality rather than realizing
their willing poster boys for the Christian Coalition or the latest
"Satanism Special" on A&E.
Again, an example of someone way too involved with the media. Anything
to be in show business, eh?
Post by unknown
Post by Kori Houghton
Post by unknown
Not to change the subject, but I think Pynchon realizes this and puts it in
some of his works.
He does! I think I've read all the novels now except for _Mason
Dixon_, I think the title was. Pynchon's books are a better send-up of
occultism than _Illuminatus_ or _Foucault's Pendulum_ IMO.
M&D is one of the best arguments I've read against aristocracy, slavery, and
Christian hypocracy.
Cool, I'll get a copy and read it.
Post by unknown
In my book the real occultists of the 20th Century were
Pynchon, Jack Parsons, Crowley, and Jung. The rest are just amusing
sideshows with LaVey being head of the class. (Too bad LaVey didn't turn his
rapier wit into something a bit more productive.)
Yes, that is too bad. But I think LaVey had his reasons for wanting to
live out the rest of his days as the Pope of Superficialtiy...not that
I know what those reasons were, exactly LOL.
Post by unknown
Post by Kori Houghton
Post by unknown
Post by Kori Houghton
Ah, Harry! You're giving it all away here LOL! Well, maybe not all of
it, but a good bit anyway.
I hope no one mistakes my cynical tittering at some of the groups mentioned
with some sort of Gandhiesque "love of humanity" crap either. Most people
that fetishize Gandhi-ji don't realize that he really hated Blacks which I
http://www.trinicenter.com/WorldNews/ghandi4.htm
"It is one thing to register natives who would not work, and whom it is very
difficult to find out if they absent themselves, but it is another thing-and
most insulting-to expect decent, hard-working, and respectable Indians,
whose only fault is that they work too much, to have themselves registered
and carry with them registration badges." There are many more examples from
this page.
Yo Gandhi! Seriously, who really honestly actually loves "humanity"?
Got me. Most humans fall between the middle of the Bell Curve. What I find
interesting is people that migrate from one part to another.
What do you mean by that? That is a fascinating suggestion!
Post by unknown
Post by Kori Houghton
Post by unknown
Post by Kori Houghton
Damn straight. Besides, it is possible that an individual might carry
off some self-promotion with a bit more cred than 'all your base are
belong to us'. But this hyothetical person would have to write well
enough to come across as intelligent, witty, and creatively
manipulative to do that on a chat board...and not be laughed off into
dismissal. Uh, supposing the chat board participants had at least half
a brain.
I read that propaganda, er, chat-board and wasn't impressed. I do find the
overt attempts at controlling the flow of information to be amateurish at
best. Kinda reads like alt.satanism, no? LOL!
It might read like alt.satanism, but it's a heavily moderated board.
Whole threads have been known to vanish within the hour of some
participant getting real (which is not the same as flaming LOL) in a
heated discussion. Any participant can post stuff like 'I call on the
name of my magickal guardian angel spirit protector being and he
arrives in the form of the creaking floor board under my entertainment
center' or some such craparoo without anyone daring to say 'hey, you're
shittin' me, man!' It's funny there in a sad kind of way.
Creaking floor board? LOL!
Not a quote from an actual post (that I know of, anyway). But there is
a ton of airheaded goofball occultnik stupidity on that board. Along
with a few interesting discussions which make it worth a read from time
to time.

Alabaster here bent some heads on there, and it was fun to watch.

Kori
Post by unknown
Post by Kori Houghton
Post by unknown
Post by Kori Houghton
Post by unknown
Post by Kori Houghton
All in all, a fun bit of Don Webbism in action!
Sure it isn't Pinky and The Brain with Eddie Munster brows and a widow's
peak?
Dunno Pinky and The Brain -- I'm culturally deprived, I guess. You
could say I was 'talking to the hand'. As in the one up Webb's
posterior?
Pinky and The Brain is a very funny cartoon on tee vee. It focuses on the
lives of two lab rats, one a super genius rodent the other his erstwhile
bumbling companion. The Brain wants "world domination" with himself as the
titular head and often Pinky, his ever faithful follower, screws things up.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0112123/
http://snowball.frogspace.net/labnotes/pb002a_1
That must have been a funny show. Central PA doesn't have a WB
affiliate, and we were living in a cableless wasteland when it was on.
Damn. I dig the Orson Welles angle -- that sounds cool!
Damn funny show.
Regards,
Harry Lime
www.harrylime.biz
Post by Kori Houghton
Luv,
Kori
Post by unknown
Regards,
Harry Lime
www.harrylime.biz
Post by Kori Houghton
Kori
Post by unknown
Regards,
Harry Lime
www.harrylime.biz
Post by Kori Houghton
http://www.occultforums.com/showthread.php?t=17832
Luv,
Kori
--
Post by Alabaster
Dear Kori, Ryan and Harry,
Kori, well, I think that the Temple of Set and other Satanist groups
clearly identify with the Left Hand Path and it has a very particular
meaning for them. As far as borrowed symbols are concerned, most of
these groups are smart and thorough enough to define their own terms
and symbols...we should seek their meanings there.
I think there is a good deal of material on the definition of the Left
Hand Path and it would be interesting to get into it directly.
Personlly I would imagine that Stephen Flowers's book, The Lords of the
Left Hand Path would be the key volume for the review of this topic.
As far as Lucas is concerned, I think Star Wars is a perfectly apt
depiction of the tactics of the Left Hand Path. In my experience, it
is a veritable gold-mine of accurate real-life insights into the
political dynamics of the occult in totalitarian governments.
Thank you for the recommendation of The Germanization of Early Medieval
Christianity by James C. Russell (Oxford U. Press), I'll look for it.
Can you post any relevant text which clarifies your positions?
The Temple of Set reading list is entirely relevant to this topic.
You
should post it, Kori. As well as bring all your smartypants LHP friends
to the review of this topic here.
Ryan, very interesting source, Levi.
Interesting observations on the Tree of Life, the Middle Path Magisters
and various seeming inconsistencies.
You say that the differences in India are matters of method, not of
aim. What is the aim to which you refer? And how would you
characterize the methods of the LHP and the RHP in this pursuit as you
understand them?
Interesting characterization, Harry, the Left Hand Path is something
which is most saliently described as something outside the
Judeo-Christian point of view. But then again who knows, perhaps the
Catholic Church is in fact an LHP organization.
Interesting reference to Mormonism, Harry. Curious spiritual roots for
many "mainstreaming" religions, Mormonism, Scientology, etc.
Mmhmm, the LHP encourages us to reconsider things in many ways it
would%0
D
Post by unknown
Post by Kori Houghton
Post by unknown
Post by Kori Houghton
Post by unknown
Post by Kori Houghton
Post by Alabaster
seem.
True natures tend to reveal themselves over time, no question, but
%3
E> >> in
Post by unknown
Post by Kori Houghton
Post by unknown
Post by Kori Houghton
Post by unknown
Post by Kori Houghton
Post by Alabaster
many instances we are all children. What parents teach us perhaps
comprises an important feature of what we believe our natures can
indeed even become.
Again, beyond my own personal impressions on this topic I am
particularly interested in getting things from the horse's mouth, so
let's visit.
An excellent source of material on the Left Hand Path which I've read
is the Schrecks's Demons of the Flesh. I may post some lengthy
excerpts to the thread, but I have become ever so leery FOR FEAR OF
PERSNICKETY COPYRIGHT TATTLETALES! Oh how the Dark Side weaves its
cruel webs of fear. But in the interim, we can consult a short excerpt
presented with permission on the Storm's web site.
Essential Principles of the Left-Hand Path
http://www.voiceofthestorm.com/essentialprinciplesofthelefthandpath.html
One of the most salient features to me of the Left Hand Path is the
commitment to taboo-breaking.
"3.) Initiation through the deliberate violation of deep-seated
external social and internal personal taboos, the individual separation
from tribal normative values, and the radical inversion of convention
and orthodoxy of every kind."
In another post, Tani was saying that she believed that the Left Hand
Path was simply a meditative and non-active tradition, the Shrecks seem
to vehemently disagree with this idea of the LHP.
"Left-hand path initiation, however, cannot be limited to a merely
intellectual break with the herd-animal man. As the proverb above makes
clear, these transgressions [of traditional moral orthodoxy] must be
deeds, physical actions, taken in the real world to truly effect
self-transformation. It is not only what the left-hand path initiate
thinks that situates him or her in the sinister current; it is what he
or she does. The left-hand path is a way of action, not intellectual
contemplation, or worse yet, reading about action."
Just musing about this, one could consider what traditional moral
orthodoxy takes to be taboo and then consider violating these
taboos
in
order to imagine what is entailed here. For people familiar with the
details of the tradition it is already well-known what some taboos
which are ritually broken are. I think this commitment to spiritually
validating if not mandating the breaking of traditional moral taboos
places the adept of the Left Hand Path on a collision course with
essentially admitting to the willingness if not obligation to commit
all of the various crimes which have been attributed to him in history.
You've got a really tough time of seeming fair in shouting down even
the most outrageous of accusations, because in essence, it's "against
your religion" not to perform such crimes.
Curiouser and curiouser.
What other impressions about the Left Hand Path, Right Hand Path do you
have and what are your sources? Do you feel that it is important to
your own self-conception to clarify this issue?
Regards,
Alabaster
alabastermushroom at gmail dot com
unknown
2005-08-17 04:39:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kori Houghton
Post by unknown
Post by Kori Houghton
Me. too. The idea of gangs of cult-conforming 'individualists' cracks
me up in a superbly ironic way.
Boy isn't that the truth. Some occult people I've encountered are pretty
silly. I used to take this stuff pretty seriously and when I did I always
thought the LHP was a solitary path. Today the major groups seem more about
conformity to their ideology than discovering "hidden truths."
No kidding? One of them takes medium bright, undereducated, young
adults with non-conformist leanings and re-integrates them into happy
consumer bots. (They teach themselves that it's good to conform
because you are choosing to do so. Yeah, uh huh.)
Right. I've discussed the Frankfurt School ad nauseum in alt.satanism over
the years, but they were the first neo-Marxists to really address this issue
in a not entirely ideological but more pragmatic way. If you're choosing
between new Ford or a new Chevy, you don't really have a free choice per se,
you're just excercising a choice based on artificially constructed needs
created by Madison Avenue. I don't feel like beating this dead horse much
longer, but I do wish some Satanists were a bit more well read.

I'm not trying to start the flood of the anonymous trolls here again, but
which are group are you referring to in the paragraph above?
Post by Kori Houghton
Post by unknown
"Freedom is
slavery" and all.
Bingo!
Post by unknown
I personally find the anarchist bent in the occult more
interesting and diabolical than shocking people with Nazi and Dark Goth
fetishism. It's much more of a challenge to startle people within a middle
class context (and we're all 'middle class' in the States from Rodeo Drive
to the local mobile home park LOL!) than it is to wear a Baphomet, a goatee,
and quote LaVey. I'm not writing this to specifically disparage him or the
CoS as this could be equally relevant to the ToS -- these two groups being
the only ones of any significance IMO.
Ah, but folks with 'the anarchist bent' might be considered dangerous
LOL. It's much better to trick them into believing the true solitary
souls conform....by choice, because it's "Indulgence".
Perhaps I should've written "Livertarianism" instead of "Anarchism" so as
not to offend those with a drinking problem that is entirely driven by
"free" market forces in Florida. Believe me, I'm all for "Indulgence" but
the math in that "true souls conform by choice" makes about as much sense to
me as Egan casting a spell that caused someone to commit suicide.

Currently I'm reading "The Spanish Civil War" by Hugh Thomas. Reason I
started this book was an ongoing interest in the emergence of an enduring
fascist state (i.e. past WWII and not in South America). Before I started
reading the book, I was pretty ignorant and felt that either Franco had
ongoing prison gulags that kept dissent silenced, the Spanish were a band of
backwards Catholic Opus Dei lunatics, or there was something in the water
that caused a mass Catalonian psychosis.

While it is an over simplification, the Spanish general populace traded
security and safety for liberty. The leftists at the time (despite what was
portrayed by Hemingway and his pals) were generally disorganized and fought
amongst themselves (you should check out the character Dolores Ibarruri, 'La
Pasionaria' that the Trotskyites had a fun time co-opting, another thread
perhaps). The real forces that had any relevency before Franco took power
were the Anarchists and the fascists. Franco, while at times brutal, was a
very astitute politician -- something I didn't really expect.
Post by Kori Houghton
Post by unknown
Post by Kori Houghton
My guess is that the powers-that-be
(in the mundane sense, of course LOL) approve of occultnik gangs
because this kind of group posturing and squabbling keeps at least some
of the populace from meddling with them.
Many of them (not all) are disenfranchised people from abusive Christian
homes and some have an amusing Monarchist twist with the imbecilic elitist
dogma.
Yes, but not all of them.
Not all, yes.
Post by Kori Houghton
Post by unknown
This acts as an amusing social control for people who might really
figure stuff out and try to enact some sort of revenge figuring they don't
have a lot to lose.
Which is why the group I am thinking of seeks young adults with limited
post-secondary education, average (at best) incomes, etc. and hooks
them on the consumer treadmill. It really is DoubleThink when someone
rants about "not caring for _things_", then switches gears to list
their latest purchases. LOLOLOL! Hey, I like to shop and I admit it.
Yeah, I enjoy shopping too (unlike most men) for really kitchy stuff. I've
got a really cheesy campaign button from the Wallace Presidency that states,
"Wallace for President - Stand Up for America" (with no apologies to Arthur
Bremer, I guess), a "Nixon Now More Than Ever" bumpersticker (a family
heirloom) and a couple of fun tie tacks from the Nixon museum in Yorba
Linda.
Post by Kori Houghton
Post by unknown
I argue that the Satanists like Boyd Rice are much
better off displacing their anger with Walter Mittyesque flights-of-fancy
imagining they're misunderstood Merovingian royality rather than realizing
their willing poster boys for the Christian Coalition or the latest
"Satanism Special" on A&E.
Again, an example of someone way too involved with the media. Anything
to be in show business, eh?
I guess. Being a self-described elitist, you'd think he'd figure this out.
Post by Kori Houghton
Post by unknown
Post by Kori Houghton
Post by unknown
Not to change the subject, but I think Pynchon realizes this and puts
it
in
some of his works.
He does! I think I've read all the novels now except for _Mason
Dixon_, I think the title was. Pynchon's books are a better send-up of
occultism than _Illuminatus_ or _Foucault's Pendulum_ IMO.
M&D is one of the best arguments I've read against aristocracy, slavery, and
Christian hypocracy.
Cool, I'll get a copy and read it.
It's a pretty difficult read, I'd recommend reading an online synopsis
before you start reading this work. A lot of people "poo-poo" this, but I
find it has really helped me.
Post by Kori Houghton
Post by unknown
In my book the real occultists of the 20th Century were
Pynchon, Jack Parsons, Crowley, and Jung. The rest are just amusing
sideshows with LaVey being head of the class. (Too bad LaVey didn't turn his
rapier wit into something a bit more productive.)
Yes, that is too bad. But I think LaVey had his reasons for wanting to
live out the rest of his days as the Pope of Superficialtiy...not that
I know what those reasons were, exactly LOL.
Oh I could guess, but it's nothing new and stuff I've written in here many
times. I've always regarded LaVey as a much more talented author than is
generally acknowledged.
Post by Kori Houghton
Post by unknown
Post by Kori Houghton
Post by unknown
Post by Kori Houghton
Ah, Harry! You're giving it all away here LOL! Well, maybe not all of
it, but a good bit anyway.
I hope no one mistakes my cynical tittering at some of the groups mentioned
with some sort of Gandhiesque "love of humanity" crap either. Most people
that fetishize Gandhi-ji don't realize that he really hated Blacks
which
I
http://www.trinicenter.com/WorldNews/ghandi4.htm
"It is one thing to register natives who would not work, and whom it
is
very
difficult to find out if they absent themselves, but it is another thing-and
most insulting-to expect decent, hard-working, and respectable Indians,
whose only fault is that they work too much, to have themselves registered
and carry with them registration badges." There are many more examples from
this page.
Yo Gandhi! Seriously, who really honestly actually loves "humanity"?
Got me. Most humans fall between the middle of the Bell Curve. What I find
interesting is people that migrate from one part to another.
What do you mean by that? That is a fascinating suggestion!
Generally most people stay within the same Socio-Economic-Status as their
parents. Those that generally exceed or fall below the income of their
forebearers, I find the reasons interesting. While many people haven't been
able to have the same income as their parents, they often occupy the same
social status. In other words, if your parents were professionals you'll
tend to be a professional yourself. Likewise if your father was a factory
worker, you'll generally be included within blue collar workforce. A myth
that many Americans believe is that most of us start out in life on a level
playing field despite the fact whether we were born into luxury, poverty, or
something in the middle. When people either rise above or below their
family's income level, I find the circumstances interesting -- perhaps this
is my "indulgence." LOL!
Post by Kori Houghton
Post by unknown
Post by Kori Houghton
Post by unknown
Post by Kori Houghton
Damn straight. Besides, it is possible that an individual might carry
off some self-promotion with a bit more cred than 'all your base are
belong to us'. But this hyothetical person would have to write well
enough to come across as intelligent, witty, and creatively
manipulative to do that on a chat board...and not be laughed off into
dismissal. Uh, supposing the chat board participants had at least half
a brain.
I read that propaganda, er, chat-board and wasn't impressed. I do find the
overt attempts at controlling the flow of information to be amateurish at
best. Kinda reads like alt.satanism, no? LOL!
It might read like alt.satanism, but it's a heavily moderated board.
Whole threads have been known to vanish within the hour of some
participant getting real (which is not the same as flaming LOL) in a
heated discussion. Any participant can post stuff like 'I call on the
name of my magickal guardian angel spirit protector being and he
arrives in the form of the creaking floor board under my entertainment
center' or some such craparoo without anyone daring to say 'hey, you're
shittin' me, man!' It's funny there in a sad kind of way.
Creaking floor board? LOL!
Not a quote from an actual post (that I know of, anyway). But there is
a ton of airheaded goofball occultnik stupidity on that board. Along
with a few interesting discussions which make it worth a read from time
to time.
Alabaster here bent some heads on there, and it was fun to watch.
Extra bonus points for tweaking those folks -- funny how some of these types
take themselves far too seriously.

Regards,

Harry Lime
www.harrylime.biz
Post by Kori Houghton
Kori
Post by unknown
Post by Kori Houghton
Post by unknown
Post by Kori Houghton
Post by unknown
Post by Kori Houghton
All in all, a fun bit of Don Webbism in action!
Sure it isn't Pinky and The Brain with Eddie Munster brows and a widow's
peak?
Dunno Pinky and The Brain -- I'm culturally deprived, I guess. You
could say I was 'talking to the hand'. As in the one up Webb's
posterior?
Pinky and The Brain is a very funny cartoon on tee vee. It focuses on the
lives of two lab rats, one a super genius rodent the other his erstwhile
bumbling companion. The Brain wants "world domination" with himself as the
titular head and often Pinky, his ever faithful follower, screws
things
up.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0112123/
http://snowball.frogspace.net/labnotes/pb002a_1
That must have been a funny show. Central PA doesn't have a WB
affiliate, and we were living in a cableless wasteland when it was on.
Damn. I dig the Orson Welles angle -- that sounds cool!
Damn funny show.
Regards,
Harry Lime
www.harrylime.biz
Post by Kori Houghton
Luv,
Kori
Post by unknown
Regards,
Harry Lime
www.harrylime.biz
Post by Kori Houghton
Kori
Post by unknown
Regards,
Harry Lime
www.harrylime.biz
Post by Kori Houghton
http://www.occultforums.com/showthread.php?t=17832
Luv,
Kori
--
Post by Alabaster
Dear Kori, Ryan and Harry,
Kori, well, I think that the Temple of Set and other Satanist groups
clearly identify with the Left Hand Path and it has a very particular
meaning for them. As far as borrowed symbols are concerned, most of
these groups are smart and thorough enough to define their own terms
and symbols...we should seek their meanings there.
I think there is a good deal of material on the definition of
the
Left
Hand Path and it would be interesting to get into it directly.
Personlly I would imagine that Stephen Flowers's book, The Lords
of
the
Left Hand Path would be the key volume for the review of this topic.
As far as Lucas is concerned, I think Star Wars is a perfectly apt
depiction of the tactics of the Left Hand Path. In my
experience,
it
is a veritable gold-mine of accurate real-life insights into the
political dynamics of the occult in totalitarian governments.
Thank you for the recommendation of The Germanization of Early Medieval
Christianity by James C. Russell (Oxford U. Press), I'll look
for
it.
Can you post any relevant text which clarifies your positions?
The Temple of Set reading list is entirely relevant to this topic.
You
should post it, Kori. As well as bring all your smartypants LHP friends
to the review of this topic here.
Ryan, very interesting source, Levi.
Interesting observations on the Tree of Life, the Middle Path Magisters
and various seeming inconsistencies.
You say that the differences in India are matters of method, not of
aim. What is the aim to which you refer? And how would you
characterize the methods of the LHP and the RHP in this pursuit
as
you
understand them?
Interesting characterization, Harry, the Left Hand Path is something
which is most saliently described as something outside the
Judeo-Christian point of view. But then again who knows,
perhaps
the
Catholic Church is in fact an LHP organization.
Interesting reference to Mormonism, Harry. Curious spiritual
roots
for
many "mainstreaming" religions, Mormonism, Scientology, etc.
Mmhmm, the LHP encourages us to reconsider things in many ways it
would%0
D
Post by unknown
Post by Kori Houghton
Post by unknown
Post by Kori Houghton
Post by unknown
Post by Kori Houghton
Post by Alabaster
seem.
True natures tend to reveal themselves over time, no question, but
%3
E> >> in
Post by unknown
Post by Kori Houghton
Post by unknown
Post by Kori Houghton
Post by unknown
Post by Kori Houghton
Post by Alabaster
many instances we are all children. What parents teach us perhaps
comprises an important feature of what we believe our natures can
indeed even become.
Again, beyond my own personal impressions on this topic I am
particularly interested in getting things from the horse's
mouth,
so
let's visit.
An excellent source of material on the Left Hand Path which I've read
is the Schrecks's Demons of the Flesh. I may post some lengthy
excerpts to the thread, but I have become ever so leery FOR FEAR OF
PERSNICKETY COPYRIGHT TATTLETALES! Oh how the Dark Side weaves its
cruel webs of fear. But in the interim, we can consult a short excerpt
presented with permission on the Storm's web site.
Essential Principles of the Left-Hand Path
http://www.voiceofthestorm.com/essentialprinciplesofthelefthandpath.html
One of the most salient features to me of the Left Hand Path is the
commitment to taboo-breaking.
"3.) Initiation through the deliberate violation of deep-seated
external social and internal personal taboos, the individual separation
from tribal normative values, and the radical inversion of convention
and orthodoxy of every kind."
In another post, Tani was saying that she believed that the Left Hand
Path was simply a meditative and non-active tradition, the
Shrecks
seem
to vehemently disagree with this idea of the LHP.
"Left-hand path initiation, however, cannot be limited to a merely
intellectual break with the herd-animal man. As the proverb
above
makes
clear, these transgressions [of traditional moral orthodoxy]
must
be
deeds, physical actions, taken in the real world to truly effect
self-transformation. It is not only what the left-hand path initiate
thinks that situates him or her in the sinister current; it is
what
he
or she does. The left-hand path is a way of action, not intellectual
contemplation, or worse yet, reading about action."
Just musing about this, one could consider what traditional moral
orthodoxy takes to be taboo and then consider violating these
taboos
in
order to imagine what is entailed here. For people familiar
with
the
details of the tradition it is already well-known what some taboos
which are ritually broken are. I think this commitment to spiritually
validating if not mandating the breaking of traditional moral taboos
places the adept of the Left Hand Path on a collision course with
essentially admitting to the willingness if not obligation to commit
all of the various crimes which have been attributed to him in history.
You've got a really tough time of seeming fair in shouting down even
the most outrageous of accusations, because in essence, it's "against
your religion" not to perform such crimes.
Curiouser and curiouser.
What other impressions about the Left Hand Path, Right Hand Path
do
you
have and what are your sources? Do you feel that it is
important
to
your own self-conception to clarify this issue?
Regards,
Alabaster
alabastermushroom at gmail dot com
Tani Jantsang ©
2005-08-16 18:26:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by unknown
Post by Kori Houghton
-- It suggests an agenda behind those (the freaking' TOSsers LOL) who
are promoting a contrived concept of 'Western LHP'c
Their definition of it is also in their Theory and Practice book - and it is
a definition peculiar to their own organization, exclusively.
Post by unknown
Frankly I think that most, if not all, of the Occult is contrived.
Harry, all RELIGION is contrived, yes? Someone made it up - it doesn't
matter when. Then the stuff mutates, it gets changed, so you have versions
of it all. I'd say that even all history is contrived - written by the
winners, deconstructed by the postmodernists - and then rewritten once again
by the restructuralists. Something like H2O (exactly what that is) is NOT
contrived. It's empirical.
Post by unknown
Post by Kori Houghton
-- It shows the comical aspects of said agenda in that its proponents
tend to be less articulate and less informed than their opponents,
suggesting that their program of revising a religion for 'the herd'
with themselves on the throne needs _a lot_ more work.
The whole elitist ideology of the Occult smells very Christian to me.
Heh, quoting me from over a decade ago? Quoting the monographs? Or did you
just figure that out yourself? Elite, Chosen of God, Elect of God - same
stupid shit. It is definitely NOT the same as a culture having labels for
people that have specific skills, like "he's a Muse." Sure, he has perfect
pitch, he thinks in tones. I notice that every single time someone or some
group believes that hokum they are on the down end of something, downtrodden
or outcast. It's never the TRULY "superior in intellect" that go around
claiming to be elite. Never.
Post by unknown
Substitute "Eliteism" of any LHP movement and you have a pretty similar
idea with the Christian idea of the "Sanctified," "Saints," or any other
Christian label that separates the proverbial "wheat from the chaff."
Wrong there on one count. Separating the wheat from the chaff (or weeds) is
another kind of idea - it's not the same as claiming to be elite, elect of
god, chosen of god, blah blah. Weeds or chaff would be what? Non
producers? Criminals? Uh, generational welfare recipients? Yes?

From
Post by unknown
what I can see of the people really in power like Warren Buffett, they
often downplay their resources. I don't think that you gain power over
the mass people by informing them that you're "better" than they are --
odd how this > is lost to most of the organized Satanic groups out there.
No, I said it to them about a kazillion times - they don't seem quite able
to HEAR me. Uh, they don't WANT to hear it - for to hear it would be for
them to look in a mirror and see what subzeros they are.
Post by unknown
Post by Kori Houghton
-- As one poster observed, the TOSsers demonstrate that their
fabricated version of LHP involves a group plan for (ahem) herd control
at the expense of simple individual spiritual development and pursuits;
so who is the 'herd' and who the 'goats'?
Now, you see, the whole idea of herd control, the entire DOING of herd
control would be entirely ACTIVE DOING - which is RHP. Being outside of the
herd, unseen by the herd and going your own way would be LHP in practice.
The way to do that is very simple for some. It's active NONdoing. You
simply have NO will focus on "the herd." As a result, you end up not even
knowing what the hell the herd is up to. I do not mean that you activelly
TRY to "ignore the herd." No, I mean that by your own nature you DO TEND to
not notice them. That means you ARE on a Left Hand Path by nature. It's an
INWARD directed path. You can't just become inner directed. You either are
or you aren't. By nature.
Post by unknown
Post by Kori Houghton
All in all, a fun bit of Don Webbism in action!
Don Webb with his Uncle Setnacht "self overcoming" is the quintessence of
RHP.
Delila
2005-08-16 20:21:48 UTC
Permalink
"Tani Jantsang ©" <***@SPAMpost.com> wrote in message
news:EdqMe.6230>>>
Post by Tani Jantsang ©
Now, you see, the whole idea of herd control, the entire DOING of herd
control would be entirely ACTIVE DOING - which is RHP. Being outside of the
herd, unseen by the herd and going your own way would be LHP in practice.
The way to do that is very simple for some. It's active NONdoing. You
simply have NO will focus on "the herd." As a result, you end up not even
knowing what the hell the herd is up to. I do not mean that you activelly
TRY to "ignore the herd." No, I mean that by your own nature you DO TEND to
not notice them. That means you ARE on a Left Hand Path by nature.
It's an
Post by Tani Jantsang ©
INWARD directed path. You can't just become inner directed. You either are
or you aren't. By nature.
Yep! That's me.


D.
Alabaster
2005-08-11 04:41:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kori Houghton
Greetings Al, Harry and Ryan --
Here's a link to a discussion of this topic currently taking place on
another chat board.
-- It suggests an agenda behind those (the freaking' TOSsers LOL) who
are promoting a contrived concept of 'Western LHP'
-- It shows the comical aspects of said agenda in that its proponents
tend to be less articulate and less informed than their opponents,
suggesting that their program of revising a religion for 'the herd'
with themselves on the throne needs _a lot_ more work
-- As one poster observed, the TOSsers demonstrate that their
fabricated version of LHP involves a group plan for (ahem) herd control
at the expense of simple individual spiritual development and pursuits;
so who is the 'herd' and who the 'goats'?
All in all, a fun bit of Don Webbism in action!
http://www.occultforums.com/showthread.php?t=17832
Luv,
Kori
Ooooh, Kori...the veritable Lion's Den.

~chuckles

Here, where do I sign up?


Splendid board, I'll see you there soon.


Best,

Alabaster
RyanS2
2005-08-10 23:18:46 UTC
Permalink
I'll quote myself:

"In the World of Hinduism, the division was made between two paths, the
RHP, and the LHP, or Dakshina Marga, and Vama Marga. The problem with
maintaining this link is that while in the Satanic System, the RHP and
LHP are polarizations, they are not in Hinduism. In Hinduism, the RHP
is considered the "safe" method for attaining spiritual enlightenment,
while Vama is a more intense, and hence dangerous, way to attain it.

The use of the term was drawn from eastern Tantra. When worshippers
gathered for a rite of puja, the woman or shakti would sit on the right
side of the partner, if it was purely symbolic ceremonies. However,
sitting on the left meant that sex would take place, the woman was
being regarded as the incarnation of the Goddess. The nature of LHP in
tantra is an extreme one, a tantric maxim states that "One reaches
Heaven by the very practices which may lead to Hell."

However, we here note that the terms LHP/RHP have no moral implications
attached to them. As an example of attaining enlightenment in a LHP
kind of way, think of doing a sexual practice that you have never
thought of before, something to totally "shock" you into higher
consciousness. Another example would have been going to Vietnam, but
the point of the LHP is that it is voluntarily attained enlightenment.
Perhaps an illustration would be better. In the classical systems of
LHP Tantra, practices and ceremonies were done which were not socially
acceptable. I.e. in the panca-tattva rite, they would partake five
substances including forbidden sex, wine, and meat. Doing this is
America would not be considered LHP because it is done daily and
unconsciously by many Americans. It certainly wouldn't shock anyone
here. This obviously is not the source we are looking for in this
discussion....

Another commonly cited source is Eliphas Levi, who knew Kabballah,
although the connection that he made with the infamous diagram of the
left-hand versus right-hand paths was mostly of his own devising.

Levi's basic idea in this form of symbology is that the right hand
path, defines the World when spirit is above matter, or more
accurately, spirit above Earth. On the right, the left-hand path
symbolizes carnality, when the Material World is placed above that of
spirituality. There's another reason for the use of the term "LHP" by
LaVey, connected with Quballah. The term that the Zohar uses for evil
is "Sitra Ahra", the "Other Side", or the Left-hand. Mather Walker
gives this explanation: http://www.sirbacon.org/mmerchantv.htm

"the right-hand pillar was associated the qualities of mildness, love
and mercy. The presence of evil in the universe was explained as
arising from entities associated with the left hand pillar, left hand
side, or simply sitra ahra (the other side). The doctrine which
gradually developed saw the source of evil in the superabundant growth
of the lefthand side through its separation from the restraining and
offsetting influence of the righthand side. From this unnatural
imbalance resulted a domain of dark emanations and demonic powers,
which were not a natural part of the organic whole, but were a
cancerous like growth."
Alabaster
2005-08-11 04:52:01 UTC
Permalink
Good quote,
Post by RyanS2
"In the World of Hinduism, the division was made between two paths, the
RHP, and the LHP, or Dakshina Marga, and Vama Marga. The problem with
maintaining this link is that while in the Satanic System, the RHP and
LHP are polarizations, they are not in Hinduism. In Hinduism, the RHP
is considered the "safe" method for attaining spiritual enlightenment,
while Vama is a more intense, and hence dangerous, way to attain it.
Yes, this true, but it is also characterized solely from the standpoing
of the adept, not those others who may be victimized along the path of
the Vama Marga.
Post by RyanS2
The use of the term was drawn from eastern Tantra. When worshippers
gathered for a rite of puja, the woman or shakti would sit on the right
side of the partner, if it was purely symbolic ceremonies. However,
sitting on the left meant that sex would take place, the woman was
being regarded as the incarnation of the Goddess. The nature of LHP in
tantra is an extreme one, a tantric maxim states that "One reaches
Heaven by the very practices which may lead to Hell."
However, we here note that the terms LHP/RHP have no moral implications
attached to them. As an example of attaining enlightenment in a LHP
kind of way, think of doing a sexual practice that you have never
thought of before, something to totally "shock" you into higher
consciousness. Another example would have been going to Vietnam, but
the point of the LHP is that it is voluntarily attained enlightenment.
Perhaps an illustration would be better. In the classical systems of
LHP Tantra, practices and ceremonies were done which were not socially
acceptable. I.e. in the panca-tattva rite, they would partake five
substances including forbidden sex, wine, and meat. Doing this is
America would not be considered LHP because it is done daily and
unconsciously by many Americans. It certainly wouldn't shock anyone
here. This obviously is not the source we are looking for in this
discussion....
Yes, well, there is no moral inclusion in it there, and again it's from
the adept's point of view, not the potential victims of the "heroic"
"divine criminal" initiate of the Left Hand Path. The moral
infractions are decidedly implicit though conveniently overlooked, both
for the adept as well as those he or she may "herd."

Well, you're padding it a bit, no? Surely these things are shocking to
the orthodox Hindu sensibility, but not at all the limit of such
shocks...and they are considerably more dynamic than merely doing
doggy-style in a clothes dryer.

The Tantric source is perfectly fitting for the rooting of the Left
Hand Path as I believe Demons of the Flesh has made convincingly clear.
Have you read it?
Post by RyanS2
Another commonly cited source is Eliphas Levi, who knew Kabballah,
although the connection that he made with the infamous diagram of the
left-hand versus right-hand paths was mostly of his own devising.
Levi's basic idea in this form of symbology is that the right hand
path, defines the World when spirit is above matter, or more
accurately, spirit above Earth. On the right, the left-hand path
symbolizes carnality, when the Material World is placed above that of
spirituality. There's another reason for the use of the term "LHP" by
LaVey, connected with Quballah. The term that the Zohar uses for evil
is "Sitra Ahra", the "Other Side", or the Left-hand. Mather Walker
gives this explanation: http://www.sirbacon.org/mmerchantv.htm
"the right-hand pillar was associated the qualities of mildness, love
and mercy. The presence of evil in the universe was explained as
arising from entities associated with the left hand pillar, left hand
side, or simply sitra ahra (the other side). The doctrine which
gradually developed saw the source of evil in the superabundant growth
of the lefthand side through its separation from the restraining and
offsetting influence of the righthand side. From this unnatural
imbalance resulted a domain of dark emanations and demonic powers,
which were not a natural part of the organic whole, but were a
cancerous like growth."
Very interesting Kabbalistic references, yes, these traditions do
indeed overlap and superimpose. Jewish mysticism, and thence even
contemporary Jewish neo-Orthodoxy, has a great deal in common with
Tantrism. Most people without such knowledge would find this kind of
hard to believe.

Where do you see yourself on this plateau, ryan?
RyanS2
2005-08-12 01:35:11 UTC
Permalink
Hello Kori:

"Not sure I follow you here. "War is all hell...." This comment was
made a century before Vietnam.'

I like Robert E. Lee's quote better, ""It is good that war is so
terrible, else we would grow too fond of it." Or Marcel Proust's "As
people used to live in God, I live in the war."

You'll have to follow me through some of my kookier moments Kori. I
believe that a lot of the original mystery schools, (I mean Greece),
focused on war as a means of initiation. It's still like that in many
primitive societies, most of the motifs and rituals deal with war,
dying, mourning, etc. The Yanomamo call their killers the "unokai".
Most have multiple wives. The non-unokai rarely have a wife, and if
they do, they must have powerful relatives, or a unokai will come and
steal their woman. The Dani of Highland New Guinea call them people
who have not killed another human the "kepu". It means "worthless man,
man without valor."

The Greek cult of Eirene, (personification of peace), had slaughters of
seventy to eighty oxen at a time, and Pax-Victoria, the Roman Goddess
of peace, had her most monumnetal temple built in Vespasian's reign.
It was built to commemorate the victory over the Jews, and the earlier
temple was built after campaigns in Spain and Gaul.

Going to war is an intense initiation. It involves closed-training,
fraternal bonds, code words and signals, rituals for the fallen, code
names for the non-combatants and enemies, and super-secrets that, if
given to the enemy, result in death. Even in Socrates trial, he
claimed his service in the phlanx as one of his redeeming features, and
the ultimate form of virtue in Greece was "Arete", manly excellence,
from "Ares", the war god. Even the word veteran is derived from
"vetus", "Old" and "in the past". The venerable old men of tradition.
The tradition of Moses in the Bible says that he had to prove he was
Jewish by killing an Egyptian, David received his recognition for
slaying Goliath, etc. Follow myths around and most legendary
characters receive their calling after slaying an incredible creature
or person.

"I thought the 'dark emanations' were below the Tree rather than
on the left side. Interesting. "

The QBL is full of multiple interpretations, the problem of Din
overflowing from the Left-hand Side is discussed here:

http://members.tripod.com/cryskernan/kabbalah.htm

Hit CNTRL-F and copy in "A second, common interpretation".

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello Alabaster:

"is also characterized solely from the standpoing
of the adept, not those others who may be victimized along the path of
the Vama Marga. "

It only deals with a system of spiritual attainment. It has no social
connections to it.

'Surely these things are shocking to
the orthodox Hindu sensibility, but not at all the limit of such
shocks..."

That's a specific ritual used in the LHP of Hinduism. While individual
practitioners may do more grotesque things than that, it's a question
of whether or not it's an actual *specified* practice by the path or
religion. For example, Joseph Campbell mentions a case where followers
of Kali sacrifice ten people by beheading them. Is this part of the
Kali myth? Well, Kali does require human sacrifices, but it's only one
human sacrifice every 1,000 years. The defense fails.

What I find ironic here though is that you're looking at evil in the
same way that Augustine did. Read his Confessions and he discusses
evil like this, (I'm paraphrasing from evil):

"To truly be evil, one must commit evil for the sake of itself. I
remember I ate a peach from a farmer's tree, not because I was hungry,
but because it was wrong."

Yes, Augustine admonishes us against eating peaches. If that's the
definition of evil, you'll have a hard time explaining genocides,
terrorism, suicide cults, or even more banal child rapists. The most
recent one, the Duncan guy that killed the boy after molesting him, and
then was caught with his sister after also molesting her, asserts in
his entries that:

http://www.zorasdomain.com/duncan/

"Also, maybe then they will understand that despite my actions, I'm not
a bad person, I just have a disease contracted from society, and it
hurts a lot."

If there's an unarguable case of a selfish asshole ruining other
people's lives, it's this sick fuck. And yet, he doesn't show the
least bit remorse, he spends his time pleading that he's not a bad
person. Except for small banalities like eating peaches, no one
commits evil for the sake of committing evil. No one sits around
plotting EVIL either.

The people who really commit evil aren't practicing LHP, claiming
mastery of the world, they're out there saying that there are enemies
over there, and that if we don't all band together right now and sign
away our freedom, they'll come and kill us all! Ku Klux Klan,
Al-Qaeda, Nazis, Jacobins, Spanish Inquisitors, etc.

If you want that kind of World Power, listen to the sagely words of
Hermann Goring at his trial at Nuremberg, "The people can always be
brought to the bidding of the leaders. This is easy. All you have to
do is to tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists
for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works
the same in every country."

World power is so easy. Who knew?

"The Tantric source is perfectly fitting for the rooting of the Left
Hand Path as I believe Demons of the Flesh has made convincingly
clear."

I haven't read it, so I can't comment.

"Where do you see yourself on this plateau, ryan?"

You must be trying to get me to bore you. Here's my full definition
and explanation by what *I* mean by LHP.

"1.) Sympathy for the Devil:

Someone who is a Satanist must either believe that evil is being
misrepresented by anthropomorphized accounts, or that the traditional
account of the devil is incorrect. Most people know that the Devil has
been much misaligned in the past, so this only serves as a basic
starting point.

2.) A belief based on this sympathy for the Devil:

Going along with the first, the account of Satanism must be based upon
that system of interpretation. Either that evil doesn't exist as
anthropomorphized, or that the Devil's account is wrong, and that God
is both evil and good. Trying to switch the account to God being evil
is merely inversifying a structure, and that's just redundant and
pointless.

3.) Accepting the label:

You can't call someone who didn't consider themselves a Satanist no
matter how much you like them or their philosophy. It's not erroneous
to say that they embodied Satanic attributes, or Satanic ideas, but to
call someone you are years removed from and have never met a Satanist
is just illogical.

3.) Individualism:

Probably the quintessential piece to Satanism. Satanism should never
accept arguments from authority, any and all arguments must be
sustained by practical knowledge, demonstrateable evidence, and
quantifiable results. Even when joining an organization to show support
for a movement, Satanists never lose their individual identity, they
refuse to be a part of the system if they disagree with it. All
protests against the system are done within the laws and confines that
are acceptable, of course. Don Webb:

"Discovering what one likes, standing up for one's right to like it,
and pursuing that desire is among the most sacred of tasks..."

4.) Self-deification:

That is to say, in the words of Stephen Flowers: "Attainment of an
enlightened (or awakened), independently existing intellect and its
relative immortality." Part of being a Satanist is the realizing that
you do matter, and this is matters outside of a sphere of belonging to
a group. Quite frankly, you are the most important thing in the World
to yourself.

5.) Initiation:

I would define this as being important, and indeed, paramount. Some act
of considerable effort, for the evolution of the practitioner, must be
undertaken to show a commitment, both internally and externally, to a
cause or group. Whether it be as simple as baptism, or as elaborate as
the Golden Dawn's initiation, (I would argue that the greater the
effort put forth, the more meaningful the initiation), there needs to
be some undertaking which signifies undertaking something great.

6.) Magick:

In Satanism, Magick is a cornerstone of the puzzle. I devote an entire
chapter to it so that it may be better understood, so I won't comment
here. As per Don Webb, magick is one of the greatest tools for
controlling the "Inner Universe".

7.) Antinomianism:

Because of the postulations which state that Satanists go against
cultural values, and outside of the normal thoughts of "Good" and
"Evil". Because of this rejection, there will almost be a natural
embracement of the symbols that the conventional culture fears and
loathes. A symbol is just a symbol, it doesn't mean anything more than
what you think it means. Quoting Flowers:

"Literally antinomianism implies something 'against the law.' But the
practitioner of the left-hand path is not a criminal in the usual
sense. He or she is bound to break the cosmic laws of nature and to
break the conventional social laws imposed by ignorance and
intolerance. But in so doing the left-hand path practitioner seeks a
"higher law" of reality founded on knowledge and power. Although beyond
good and evil, this path requires the most rigorous of ethical
standards. These standards are based on understanding and not on blind
obedience to external authorities."

Don Webb writes:

"The forces that oppose the will are those habits of blind obedience to
external symbols and signals. The LHP initiate begins his or her quest
not only by rejecting sentimental attachments to cultural norms, which
most non-thinking people call 'good,' but by actively making fun of
such attachments in Symbolic ways such as a Black Mass, a Black Seder,
eating beef (if raised Hindu), and so forth."

Among other recent trends in Satanism, one has been to associate
Satanism with Nazi ideals. As Flowers points out, Nazi's are about
dissolving an individual for a group principle, and in that case, a
highly stupid one. I should be more poetic when debunking it, but it's
a just a stupid belief they had, one of declamation and intolerance.
Anyone who believes it doesn't think very hard.

8.) Individual Autonomy:

Satanists recognize that some level of order is necessary, no society
could survive without it. Even the smallest units have "big men" or
"big women" in the unit who are recognized for their leadership
abilities. However, Satanists strongly believe that people have the
right to believe what they want, act how they want, and do what they
want so long as it doesn't interfere with the equal right of others to
do so. As such, Satanists are against prohibition of any kind, as it
simply never has, nor ever will work. We are very anti-censorship. It's
the job of parents, appointed guardians, and others to watch what their
children do, it is not the job of corporations, (nor would anyone in
their right mind want to have corporations deciding what your children
watch), to monitor your children. Going along with self-deification,
it's up to you, the ruling God of your World, to do things, it's nobody
else's responsibility.

9.) Love of Education:

If the greatest Satanic Sin is stupidity, the greatest Satanic virtue
then would be education. We will examine this later on in an article
dealing with Satan as a Chaos God, but for now, we'll stick to this
description. The term "education" is a bad one, the real word I'd be
looking for would be a combination of the Greek words "mousike" and
"techne". Mousike means "music", by literal translation, but it
referred to anything over which the Muses ruled, such as art, music,
poetry, and so forth. Techne referred to trade skills with a slightly
stronger connoctation than our term "technical" skills would apply.

Both of these have to do with the power of transformation. A technical
skill, some job which you can perform with pride, is valuable as
changing your perception of yourself, to the community, and gives you
resources with which to further those pursuits. Having a mousike skill
gives you the ability to harness your creative powers and
transformative energies into a different form; from mental conception
into artistic expression."
Alabaster
2005-08-12 06:02:56 UTC
Permalink
Ryan, thank you for your lengthy reply.

It doesn't bore me in the least.

I'll respond thoroughly shortly.

What is your Flowers reference, Lords of the Left Hand Path?


Regards,

Alabaster
RyanS2
2005-08-13 23:35:14 UTC
Permalink
"What is your Flowers reference, Lords of the Left Hand Path?"

Yep.
Alabaster
2005-08-14 03:19:31 UTC
Permalink
Hello Ryan,



Thanks for confirming that the Flowers was your source.

Let me see if I can respond here.


I said:
"Yes, this true, but it is also characterized solely from the
standpoing of the adept, not those others who may be victimized along
the path of the Vama Marga."

Ryan:
"It only deals with a system of spiritual attainment. It has no social
connections to it."

Yes, that's exactly what I said, to characterize the Vama Marga solely
from the standpoint of the adept's self-consciousness is a
self-servingly dishonest error of omission as the social impacts of the
adept's actions are ignored.


Ryan:
"That's a specific ritual used in the LHP of Hinduism. While
individual practitioners may do more grotesque things than that, it's a
question of whether or not it's an actual *specified* practice by the
path or religion. For example, Joseph Campbell mentions a case where
followers of Kali sacrifice ten people by beheading them. Is this part
of the Kali myth? Well, Kali does require human sacrifices, but it's
only one human sacrifice every 1,000 years. The defense fails."

Oh, I don't know if the defense fails at all. Quite a bit of evidence
surfaces in India from time to time about Kali-esque murders and other
crimes often with apprehended Tantric suspects. The details of precise
scripture and practice can be addressed, but that must then move to
primary sources and that is another matter entirely. A worthy
enterprise if taken seriously and fairly.

And again, if you are trying to say that the only taboos broken in
Hindu/Buddhist Tantrism are eating meat and cheese, well, that's as
absurdly dishonest as Tani saying that the Temple of Set is anti-Nazi.
Such remarks strike me as nearly disrespectfully disingenuous.


Ryan:
"What I find ironic here though is that you're looking at evil in the
same way that Augustine did."

I honestly don't believe I've even referred to evil in this thread, can
you clarify what you are referring to?

You go on to further say that evil is selfish and pleasurable. And
that somehow this isn't a feature of the Left Hand Path because the LHP
is a form of spiritual self-development only. Are you saying that the
people featured in Flowers's book, such as the Marquis de Sade, were
dispassionate students of an arcane spiritual discipline as they
engaged their activities?

You also mentioned "Ku Klux Klan, Al-Qaeda, Nazis, Jacobins, Spanish
Inquisitors, etc." Did you mention these as the false bugaboos of real
LHP instigation? I would say that they themselves are adepts and
emissaries of the LHP. How does your reference classify them?


Ryan:
"I haven't read it [Demons of the Flesh], so I can't comment."

You should, it is considered a better introduction to the subject than
Webb.


On your self-definitions:


What do you mean by "anthropomorphized accounts" of evil?

On God, Christian or otherwise Abrahamic, who really said he was good
as such? Certainly not me.


Ryan:
"Satanism should never accept arguments from authority, any and all
arguments must be sustained by practical knowledge, demonstrateable
evidence, and quantifiable results. Even when joining an organization
to show support for a movement, Satanists never lose their individual
identity, they refuse to be a part of the system if they disagree with
it."

This is another rather challenging statement to be made by a member of
a neo-fascist organization like the Temple of Set (presuming that
you're quoting from Flowers). Fascist self-identification from people
involved in the Set Movement is more or less de rigeur. Former Priests
in the Temple of Set, Nikolas and Zeena Schreck dedicated one of their
books to Italian fascist theorist Julius Evola. Evola-style
neo-fascism appears to be the standard political orientation of those
more or less self-confessed Setians I've met online.

We further have remarks from ToS founder, Michael Aquino, which I've
already addressed and will repost,

"Similarly the life-worship of the Third Reich was not what the
"Mediterranean" mind understands by this term. The "life" is the life
of the state, or more precisely the _Volk_ (perhaps best translated as
the "soul of the people"). The individual achieves self-realization as,
through his efforts, he contributes to the strengthening of this
"soul"."

http://www.satanservice.org/th eory/tosordtrap.txt

This is from official ToS documentation and it certainly seems to be
sympathetic to the fascist, State-Soul mindset. Again, my own
experience with this style of Satanism indicates that it is highly
authoritarian and conformist. It's definitely not a liberal
free-for-all as was depicted and perhaps pursued by La Vey.


On Initiation:

I believe that initiation is crucial for the purpose of indoctrination
and essential to getting people to do things they ordinarily wouldn't
if they could see the whole picture without the secrets,
recharacterizations and bondages to secrecy and duty incurred in
initiation.


On Magick, a referential question:

"In Satanism, Magick is a cornerstone of the puzzle. I devote an entire
chapter to it so that it may be better understood, so I won't comment
here."

Who is the author here, are you referring to your own book or another?
What is the text in question?


On Antinomianism:

I see Webb's comments on the Black Mass, etc. It seems then that a
spirit of ritual defilement is central to this tradition.


On Individual Autonomy:

"We are very anti-censorship."

I think this is rather amusing considering the amount of energy
undertaken by Aquino and company to suppress speech critical to his
organization, via lawsuits, etc., as well as maintaining extreme
secrecy on the internal documentation of his group. I heartily
recommend that people read the book The New Satanists as it was
targetted in a libel suit by Aquino: The New Satanists on Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0446364738/qid=1123988952/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/103-6305826-6995864?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

Of course, this book has been clearly the target of a suppression
campaign as this small trade paperback published in 1994 can't be found
anywhere for less than $60 (Compare other titles of similar initial
cost, topic matter and date of publication at $5 and less). Free
speech indeed. And by the way, if people would like a free copy of the
full text of that book in PDF, please contact me at alabastermushroom
at gmail dot com. I'll happily provide you with one.


I thank you for your summation, Ryan, and I'm glad to hear it is from
Lords of the Left Hand Path. I've recently purchased a copy myself,
but it has yet to arrive. I intend to offer an extensive rebuttal to
the points detailed in that book but without the text I'm only able to
address it in piecemeal fashion.


What else might you have to say about the Left Hand Path, and what
sources would you further cite?


These are books which strike me as important in the study:


Stephen E. Flowers
Lords of the Left Hand Path
Publisher's Link
http://www.runaraven.com/details_009.html
Panpipes Link
http://www.panpipes.com/lefthandbooks.htm
Amazon Link
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1885972083/qid=1123983810/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/103-6305826-6995864?v=glance&s=books
Trapezoid Link
http://www.trapezoid.org/email/llhp.html

Black and Hyatt
Pacts with the devil: A Chronicle of Sex, Blasphemy & Liberation
Publisher's Link
http://www.newfalcon.com/books/pacts_with_the_devil.htm
Amazon Link
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1561840580/qid=1123983766/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-6305826-6995864?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

Don Webb
Uncle Setnakt's Essential Guide to the Left-Hand Path
Publisher's Link
http://www.runaraven.com/details_022.html
Amazon Link
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1885972105/qid=1123983902/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/103-6305826-6995864?v=glance&s=books&n=507846
Other Links
http://www.trapezoid.org/email/setnakt.html

Don Webb
Mysteries of the Temple Set: Inner Teachings of the Left Hand Path
Publisher's Link
http://www.runaraven.com/details_032.html
Amazon Link
none

Demons of the Flesh
Publisher's Link
http://www.creationbooks.com/frameset.asp?p=http://www.creationbooks.com/titles/184068061x.html
Amazon Link
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/184068061X/103-6305826-6995864?v=glance


Regards,


Alabaster
RyanS2
2005-08-14 14:32:26 UTC
Permalink
You do realize I'm not a Setian, right? The article comes from me, on
here:

http://www.uscoven.com/philosophy/left.html

Some of the points are from Flowers, some from Webb, and some from me.
Since no other Satanic organization really went to look for the roots
of LHP, (and note that even the people you recommend are either Setians
or ex-Setians), it's hard to characterize it without referencing them.


"Yes, that's exactly what I said, to characterize the Vama Marga solely

from the standpoint of the adept's self-consciousness is a
self-servingly dishonest error of omission as the social impacts of the

adept's actions are ignored."

Do you have a specific example, or is this hypothetical?
Hypothetically, I can walk out of my room, bump into someone else, and
this can cause them to fall, and this can cause them to snap their
neck. The odds of it happening? Probably in the trillions. You'd
have to prove the law of correlation, that adepts of the Vama Marga
*often* cause social impacts with damage. In such a manner that it can
be traced to the practitioner, and not to any extraneous forces.
Otherwise, you will prove that Ice cream causes cancer and drowning,
(ice cream sells go up during summer), and that coffee causes lung
cancer, (people who smoke regularly usually drink coffee).

"Quite a bit of evidence
surfaces in India from time to time about Kali-esque murders and other
crimes often with apprehended Tantric suspects. The details of precise

scripture and practice can be addressed, but that must then move to
primary sources and that is another matter entirely. A worthy
enterprise if taken seriously and fairly.

And again, if you are trying to say that the only taboos broken in
Hindu/Buddhist Tantrism are eating meat and cheese,"

You're getting back into the law of correlation. Do you have a
specific practice that is done, by name, by all Tantric practitioners,
that involves murdering someone? If not, you're failing to distinguish
between individual behaviors of a practitioner, and categorical
behavior of a group. I'm sure that individual practitioners have done
all kinds of sordid practices, but I'm not sure that those practitices
are actually condoned or codified in any way.

'You go on to further say that evil is selfish and pleasurable. And
that somehow this isn't a feature of the Left Hand Path because the LHP

is a form of spiritual self-development only. Are you saying that the
people featured in Flowers's book, such as the Marquis de Sade, were
dispassionate students of an arcane spiritual discipline as they
engaged their activities?

You also mentioned "Ku Klux Klan, Al-Qaeda, Nazis, Jacobins, Spanish
Inquisitors, etc." Did you mention these as the false bugaboos of real

LHP instigation? I would say that they themselves are adepts and
emissaries of the LHP. How does your reference classify them?'

Curious move. The Nazis, Ku Klux Klan, Al-Qaeda, Jacobins, etc., were
attempting to bind people together through a collective movement
focused on identifying the enemy and destroying said enemy. We can
play naming games all day, but once you do that, it reduces the value
of a word, and makes it meaningless. Voltaire remarked, "if you wish
to speak to me, define your terms." If we're using different terms
with different meanings, our conversation is pointless. If you
consider the Inquisitors LHP adeptis, we don't have any common coin in
parlance.

I'll take you up on the offer to read Linda Blood's book in PDF form
though. Sounds fun.
Tani Jantsang ©
2005-08-16 19:32:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alabaster
And again, if you are trying to say that the only taboos broken in
Hindu/Buddhist Tantrism are eating meat and cheese, well, that's as
absurdly dishonest as Tani saying that the Temple of Set is anti-Nazi.
Such remarks strike me as nearly disrespectfully disingenuous.
Oh hold on. Tatar Lamaists - like Tatars in general, are eaters of all
milk products and meat products - and some of the milk products include a
very strong booze (kumis). That is our main staple. There are NO taboos.
And by the way, the Dalai Lama EATS MEAT - he was asked in an interview and
he said he eats meat.

I really do think that the ToS is anti-Nazi. It's all very very simple. If
the ToS existed in Nazi Germany - they'd be rounded up and murdered. Their
doctrines are anti-Nazi, Al. I'd say "ask Aquino yourself" but you'd not
take that as a serious suggestion.

I did my best to explain GERMAN Naziism to you - and maybe you didn't even
try to understand it. It's not something "so special or weird" at all.
It's thoroughly predictable if you DO to a nation what was DONE to Germany!
Nazi-ism is NATIONALISM - with Socialism. What's so odd about that? The
racism? Puhleeze! Germany's "scientific racism" came from the USA and
England - that is a fact! The only damned reason anyone makes a HUGE HOOLAH
over German Nazi-ism - or the word Nazi in general, is due to the damned
concentration camps. What, the American colonists did NOT put the American
Indians in the same camps and exterminate them? Like hell they sure DID do
that. It's not something so terribly odd - and it certainly isn't occult or
LHP at all. Man - it's just simple "us versus them" stuff with "the way you
look" being the prime factor (in America).

Maybe because I'm so outside the whole thing and the whole culture that for
me this whole German thing is just "NO BIG DEAL" to me? We Lamaists are
notoriously fatalistic - not to mention that my RACE tends to be 100%
fatalistic (shit happens, yawn, get over it, move on).
Post by Alabaster
"What I find ironic here though is that you're looking at evil in the
same way that Augustine did."
I honestly don't believe I've even referred to evil in this thread, can
you clarify what you are referring to?
You go on to further say that evil is selfish and pleasurable.
Hold on - what the hell? Are you trying to say that me eating Sherry Shrimp
(the same recipe, but made with shrimp) is evil because it is selfish and
pleasurable? That IS what you are saying. Selfish and pleasurable is not
necessarily evil at all. Let me break it down for you then - because this
IS the bottom line for every human being:

EVIL: that which is BAD for me, mine and my pals.
GOOD: that which is GOOD for me, mine and my pals.

That's it. Anyone that is honest will admit this.

And
Post by Alabaster
that somehow this isn't a feature of the Left Hand Path because the LHP
is a form of spiritual self-development only.
NO NO NO - LHP is a path that some people tend to just BE on. It can be
seen, discerned, in the way they DO anything and everything, even in the way
they shop at the supermarket. Same for RHP. LHP is inner directed - which
does NOT necessarily mean "selfish." RHP is outer directed - which does NOT
necessarily mean unselfish. DAMN, why can't you understand this?

Are you saying that the
Post by Alabaster
people featured in Flowers's book, such as the Marquis de Sade, were
dispassionate students of an arcane spiritual discipline as they
engaged their activities?
I never read the book. Apparently tho, according to a scholar OF de Sade I
know of - deSade didn't do any of the shit he wrote about. He was such a
pacifist that he wouldn't even condemn a man to death when he was asked
about sentencing. He wrote shocking shit in revolt against the aristocracy
that, apparently, DID do shit like he wrote about.
Post by Alabaster
You also mentioned "Ku Klux Klan, Al-Qaeda, Nazis, Jacobins, Spanish
Inquisitors, etc." Did you mention these as the false bugaboos of real
LHP instigation? I would say that they themselves are adepts and
emissaries of the LHP. How does your reference classify them?
LHP is yin. RHP is yang. Go from there. LHP types of people do not
innately have any desire to RISE UP in society, for one good example. They
generally are on the fringes of society, unnoticed, and they generally "walk
between the spaces" of any given society - making their own quiet and soft
way. They have no desire to "control" anyone or anything. Control is yang.
"Let go and flow" is yin.
Post by Alabaster
"Satanism should never accept arguments from authority, any and all
arguments must be sustained by practical knowledge, demonstrateable
evidence, and quantifiable results. Even when joining an organization
to show support for a movement, Satanists never lose their individual
identity, they refuse to be a part of the system if they disagree with
it."
I'd further finish that by stating that uh, satanists (ok, them) should have
no problem entirely changing their stance on ANYTHING, depending on what
else has happened. In other words, they don't impose on themselves a
straight jacket. That means, go with the flow - that means, your own ideas,
opinions, etc, CHANGE - as all things change. That's how we link up entropy
with "dark force" by the way, in case you wondered. That is completely
adaptable - which is quite the opposite of rigid.
Post by Alabaster
This is another rather challenging statement to be made by a member of
a neo-fascist organization like the Temple of Set (presuming that
you're quoting from Flowers). Fascist self-identification from people
involved in the Set Movement is more or less de rigeur. Former Priests
in the Temple of Set, Nikolas and Zeena Schreck dedicated one of their
books to Italian fascist theorist Julius Evola. Evola-style
neo-fascism appears to be the standard political orientation of those
more or less self-confessed Setians I've met online.
I wish a Setian would get on here - and by that I mean a Setian that really
IS a Setian - and not someone else posing as one to fuck over the TOS (it
happened before). Where is Balanone? He should speak up. Everyone knows
him, who he is.
Post by Alabaster
We further have remarks from ToS founder, Michael Aquino, which I've
already addressed and will repost,
"Similarly the life-worship of the Third Reich was not what the
"Mediterranean" mind understands by this term. The "life" is the life
of the state, or more precisely the _Volk_ (perhaps best translated as
the "soul of the people"). The individual achieves self-realization as,
through his efforts, he contributes to the strengthening of this
"soul"."
That is a true statement about the Third Reich, by the way. I could have
made the same statement. I'm not a Nazi. Nazis killed some of my people in
the war. My people killed a LOT of Nazis in the war. Heh.
Post by Alabaster
http://www.satanservice.org/th eory/tosordtrap.txt
This is from official ToS documentation and it certainly seems to be
sympathetic to the fascist, State-Soul mindset.
WHY do you find it sympathetic? Because TOS simply stated what it is
correctly? Forget "state soul mindset" which has a way of sounding "so
threatening" - and think instead "genetically related people in one area and
soul-culture." That's BIOLOGICAL. That really IS what the Germans meant -
blood and soil and all that - the spiritual and innate cultural (genetic?)
LIFE of the whole Germanic people, as a whole (collective). And yes, they
were in one country - so what? I understand that, by the way. I can easily
TUNE INTO that with my people - who are not in one country at all and in the
past never were (they were nomads). It's very gut, very strong. It's KIN
bond stuff - and that is genetic. I mean, it feels very different from when
I tune into the "earth" and heh, last May before this year May said to my
pals "we're in for a hurricane THIS year." By "we" I meant my own area,
local. It's yet a different feeling from tuning into the ocean. All of it
is genetic, imo. It's gut deep.

Again, my own
Post by Alabaster
experience with this style of Satanism indicates that it is highly
authoritarian and conformist. It's definitely not a liberal
free-for-all as was depicted and perhaps pursued by La Vey.
OH, excussse me - the LaVey said, "the COS IS a DICTATORSHIP" to more than
one person, straight on - and when I personally questioned that, I was
personally told by the HIGH PRIESTESS to shut the fuck up in so many words.
The COS was anything BUT a liberal free for all - by their own, and by
LaVey's own admission. Imo, BOTH organizations, COS and TOS are
authoritarian, they are both heirarchical organizations. If you do this or
that, you get kicked out. Hey, they have a right to do that - and if anyone
doesn't like it, they can refuse to fork over their money for membership,
right? They often try to TELL people who to and who not to associate with,
too - online or otherwise.
Post by Alabaster
I believe that initiation is crucial for the purpose of indoctrination
and essential to getting people to do things they ordinarily wouldn't
if they could see the whole picture without the secrets,
recharacterizations and bondages to secrecy and duty incurred in
initiation.
Most religions do that to their members.
Snip stuff on law suits. Libel is libel. If it can be proven - then that's
libel.
Post by Alabaster
Of course, this book has been clearly the target of a suppression
campaign as this small trade paperback published in 1994 can't be found
anywhere for less than $60 (Compare other titles of similar initial
cost, topic matter and date of publication at $5 and less). Free
speech indeed. And by the way, if people would like a free copy of the
full text of that book in PDF, please contact me at alabastermushroom
at gmail dot com. I'll happily provide you with one.
I'll contact you - I want this.
Post by Alabaster
I thank you for your summation, Ryan, and I'm glad to hear it is from
Lords of the Left Hand Path. I've recently purchased a copy myself,
but it has yet to arrive. I intend to offer an extensive rebuttal to
the points detailed in that book but without the text I'm only able to
address it in piecemeal fashion.
What else might you have to say about the Left Hand Path, and what
sources would you further cite?
Stephen E. Flowers
Lords of the Left Hand Path
Publisher's Link
http://www.runaraven.com/details_009.html
Panpipes Link
http://www.panpipes.com/lefthandbooks.htm
Amazon Link
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1885972083/qid=1123983810/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/103-6305826-6995864?v=glance&s=books
Trapezoid Link
http://www.trapezoid.org/email/llhp.html
Black and Hyatt
Pacts with the devil: A Chronicle of Sex, Blasphemy & Liberation
Publisher's Link
http://www.newfalcon.com/books/pacts_with_the_devil.htm
Amazon Link
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1561840580/qid=1123983766/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-6305826-6995864?v=glance&s=books&n=507846
Don Webb
Uncle Setnakt's Essential Guide to the Left-Hand Path
Publisher's Link
http://www.runaraven.com/details_022.html
Amazon Link
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1885972105/qid=1123983902/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/103-6305826-6995864?v=glance&s=books&n=507846
Other Links
http://www.trapezoid.org/email/setnakt.html
Don Webb
Mysteries of the Temple Set: Inner Teachings of the Left Hand Path
Publisher's Link
http://www.runaraven.com/details_032.html
Amazon Link
none
Demons of the Flesh
Publisher's Link
http://www.creationbooks.com/frameset.asp?p=http://www.creationbooks.com/titles/184068061x.html
Amazon Link
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/184068061X/103-6305826-6995864?v=glance
Regards,
Alabaster
Kori Houghton
2005-08-16 19:14:42 UTC
Permalink
Hi, Ryan. Thank you for the detailed response! Please see inside
text.
Post by RyanS2
"Not sure I follow you here. "War is all hell...." This comment was
made a century before Vietnam.'
I like Robert E. Lee's quote better, ""It is good that war is so
terrible, else we would grow too fond of it." Or Marcel Proust's "As
people used to live in God, I live in the war."
You'll have to follow me through some of my kookier moments Kori. I
believe that a lot of the original mystery schools, (I mean Greece),
focused on war as a means of initiation. It's still like that in many
primitive societies, most of the motifs and rituals deal with war,
dying, mourning, etc. The Yanomamo call their killers the "unokai".
Most have multiple wives. The non-unokai rarely have a wife, and if
they do, they must have powerful relatives, or a unokai will come and
steal their woman. The Dani of Highland New Guinea call them people
who have not killed another human the "kepu". It means "worthless man,
man without valor."
Interesting. I know there are semi-isolated areas here in the US which
share some of these values. (I spent 10 years living there
geographically, but if you were not born there you never become part of
that society.) Bloodshed of other humans in war, of animals in group
hunts, or "butcherin'" of farm animals for food are some of the most
powerful bases of that society, involving both men and women from an
early age. (Heck, who didn't _play war_ as a kid, building forts,
etc.?) Men mostly marry late (30s and 40s) and men with either a
military or prison background are favored mates. If war, warriors and
warfare contributed to the religious aspects of society -- and still
does -- that would be expected.
Post by RyanS2
The Greek cult of Eirene, (personification of peace), had slaughters of
seventy to eighty oxen at a time, and Pax-Victoria, the Roman Goddess
of peace, had her most monumnetal temple built in Vespasian's reign.
It was built to commemorate the victory over the Jews, and the earlier
temple was built after campaigns in Spain and Gaul.
Again, we have the same thing in contemporary American society. The
millennium celebration in the small town were I lived at the time
focused on the Civil War! (No, I didn't attend.)
Post by RyanS2
Going to war is an intense initiation. It involves closed-training,
fraternal bonds, code words and signals, rituals for the fallen, code
names for the non-combatants and enemies, and super-secrets that, if
given to the enemy, result in death. Even in Socrates trial, he
claimed his service in the phlanx as one of his redeeming features, and
the ultimate form of virtue in Greece was "Arete", manly excellence,
from "Ares", the war god. Even the word veteran is derived from
"vetus", "Old" and "in the past". The venerable old men of tradition.
The tradition of Moses in the Bible says that he had to prove he was
Jewish by killing an Egyptian, David received his recognition for
slaying Goliath, etc. Follow myths around and most legendary
characters receive their calling after slaying an incredible creature
or person.
Yes, going to war leaves a lasting impression. I was fascinated as a
child hearing my Father relate his experiences in the Navy during WWII
-- the fear, the bravery, the responsibility he had towards his men,
the deserters, MP duty yadda yadda yadda. It was only half a dozen
years, yet colored his life forever after.
Post by RyanS2
"I thought the 'dark emanations' were below the Tree rather than
on the left side. Interesting. "
The QBL is full of multiple interpretations, the problem of Din
http://members.tripod.com/cryskernan/kabbalah.htm
Hit CNTRL-F and copy in "A second, common interpretation".
Great link, thank you. I find QBL fascinating because of its built-in
emphasis on "eeeevil". Not my worldview, but worth learning about
since it's had so much influence on occultnik culture.

Kori
Post by RyanS2
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"is also characterized solely from the standpoing
of the adept, not those others who may be victimized along the path of
the Vama Marga. "
It only deals with a system of spiritual attainment. It has no social
connections to it.
'Surely these things are shocking to
the orthodox Hindu sensibility, but not at all the limit of such
shocks..."
That's a specific ritual used in the LHP of Hinduism. While individual
practitioners may do more grotesque things than that, it's a question
of whether or not it's an actual *specified* practice by the path or
religion. For example, Joseph Campbell mentions a case where followers
of Kali sacrifice ten people by beheading them. Is this part of the
Kali myth? Well, Kali does require human sacrifices, but it's only one
human sacrifice every 1,000 years. The defense fails.
What I find ironic here though is that you're looking at evil in the
same way that Augustine did. Read his Confessions and he discusses
"To truly be evil, one must commit evil for the sake of itself. I
remember I ate a peach from a farmer's tree, not because I was hungry,
but because it was wrong."
Yes, Augustine admonishes us against eating peaches. If that's the
definition of evil, you'll have a hard time explaining genocides,
terrorism, suicide cults, or even more banal child rapists. The most
recent one, the Duncan guy that killed the boy after molesting him, and
then was caught with his sister after also molesting her, asserts in
http://www.zorasdomain.com/duncan/
"Also, maybe then they will understand that despite my actions, I'm not
a bad person, I just have a disease contracted from society, and it
hurts a lot."
If there's an unarguable case of a selfish asshole ruining other
people's lives, it's this sick fuck. And yet, he doesn't show the
least bit remorse, he spends his time pleading that he's not a bad
person. Except for small banalities like eating peaches, no one
commits evil for the sake of committing evil. No one sits around
plotting EVIL either.
The people who really commit evil aren't practicing LHP, claiming
mastery of the world, they're out there saying that there are enemies
over there, and that if we don't all band together right now and sign
away our freedom, they'll come and kill us all! Ku Klux Klan,
Al-Qaeda, Nazis, Jacobins, Spanish Inquisitors, etc.
If you want that kind of World Power, listen to the sagely words of
Hermann Goring at his trial at Nuremberg, "The people can always be
brought to the bidding of the leaders. This is easy. All you have to
do is to tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists
for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works
the same in every country."
World power is so easy. Who knew?
"The Tantric source is perfectly fitting for the rooting of the Left
Hand Path as I believe Demons of the Flesh has made convincingly
clear."
I haven't read it, so I can't comment.
"Where do you see yourself on this plateau, ryan?"
You must be trying to get me to bore you. Here's my full definition
and explanation by what *I* mean by LHP.
Someone who is a Satanist must either believe that evil is being
misrepresented by anthropomorphized accounts, or that the traditional
account of the devil is incorrect. Most people know that the Devil has
been much misaligned in the past, so this only serves as a basic
starting point.
Going along with the first, the account of Satanism must be based upon
that system of interpretation. Either that evil doesn't exist as
anthropomorphized, or that the Devil's account is wrong, and that God
is both evil and good. Trying to switch the account to God being evil
is merely inversifying a structure, and that's just redundant and
pointless.
You can't call someone who didn't consider themselves a Satanist no
matter how much you like them or their philosophy. It's not erroneous
to say that they embodied Satanic attributes, or Satanic ideas, but to
call someone you are years removed from and have never met a Satanist
is just illogical.
Probably the quintessential piece to Satanism. Satanism should never
accept arguments from authority, any and all arguments must be
sustained by practical knowledge, demonstrateable evidence, and
quantifiable results. Even when joining an organization to show support
for a movement, Satanists never lose their individual identity, they
refuse to be a part of the system if they disagree with it. All
protests against the system are done within the laws and confines that
"Discovering what one likes, standing up for one's right to like it,
and pursuing that desire is among the most sacred of tasks..."
That is to say, in the words of Stephen Flowers: "Attainment of an
enlightened (or awakened), independently existing intellect and its
relative immortality." Part of being a Satanist is the realizing that
you do matter, and this is matters outside of a sphere of belonging to
a group. Quite frankly, you are the most important thing in the World
to yourself.
I would define this as being important, and indeed, paramount. Some act
of considerable effort, for the evolution of the practitioner, must be
undertaken to show a commitment, both internally and externally, to a
cause or group. Whether it be as simple as baptism, or as elaborate as
the Golden Dawn's initiation, (I would argue that the greater the
effort put forth, the more meaningful the initiation), there needs to
be some undertaking which signifies undertaking something great.
In Satanism, Magick is a cornerstone of the puzzle. I devote an entire
chapter to it so that it may be better understood, so I won't comment
here. As per Don Webb, magick is one of the greatest tools for
controlling the "Inner Universe".
Because of the postulations which state that Satanists go against
cultural values, and outside of the normal thoughts of "Good" and
"Evil". Because of this rejection, there will almost be a natural
embracement of the symbols that the conventional culture fears and
loathes. A symbol is just a symbol, it doesn't mean anything more than
"Literally antinomianism implies something 'against the law.' But the
practitioner of the left-hand path is not a criminal in the usual
sense. He or she is bound to break the cosmic laws of nature and to
break the conventional social laws imposed by ignorance and
intolerance. But in so doing the left-hand path practitioner seeks a
"higher law" of reality founded on knowledge and power. Although beyond
good and evil, this path requires the most rigorous of ethical
standards. These standards are based on understanding and not on blind
obedience to external authorities."
"The forces that oppose the will are those habits of blind obedience to
external symbols and signals. The LHP initiate begins his or her quest
not only by rejecting sentimental attachments to cultural norms, which
most non-thinking people call 'good,' but by actively making fun of
such attachments in Symbolic ways such as a Black Mass, a Black Seder,
eating beef (if raised Hindu), and so forth."
Among other recent trends in Satanism, one has been to associate
Satanism with Nazi ideals. As Flowers points out, Nazi's are about
dissolving an individual for a group principle, and in that case, a
highly stupid one. I should be more poetic when debunking it, but it's
a just a stupid belief they had, one of declamation and intolerance.
Anyone who believes it doesn't think very hard.
Satanists recognize that some level of order is necessary, no society
could survive without it. Even
the smallest units have "big men" or
Post by RyanS2
"big women" in the unit who are recognized for their leadership
abilities. However, Satanists strongly believe that people have the
ri
ght to believe what they want, act how they want, and do what they
Post by RyanS2
want so long as it doesn't interfere with the equal right of others to
do so. As such, Satanists are against prohibition of any kind, as it
simply never has, nor ever will work. We are very anti-censorship. It's
the job of parents, appointed guardians, and others to watch what their
children do, it is not the job of corporations, (nor would anyone in
their right mind want to have corporations deciding what your children
watch), to monitor your children. Going along with self-deification,
it's up to you, the ruling God of your World, to do things, it's nobody
else's responsibility.
If the greatest Satanic Sin is stupidity, the greatest Satanic virtue
then would be education. We will examine this later on in an article
dealing with Satan as a Chaos God, but for now, we'll stick to this
description. The term "education" is a bad one, the real word I'd be
looking for would be a combination of the Greek words "mousike" and
"techne". Mousike means "music", by literal translation, but it
referred to anything over which the Muses ruled, such as art, music,
poetry, and so forth. Techne referred to trade skills with a slightly
stronger connoctation than our term "technical" skills would apply.
Both of these have to do with the power of transformation. A technical
skill, some job which you can perform with pride, is valuable as
changing your perception of yourself, to the community, and gives you
resources with which to further those pursuits. Having a mousike skill
gives you the ability to harness your creative powers and
transformative energies into a different form; from mental conception
into artistic expression."
Tani Jantsang ©
2005-08-16 18:56:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alabaster
Good quote,
Post by RyanS2
"In the World of Hinduism, the division was made between two paths, the
RHP, and the LHP, or Dakshina Marga, and Vama Marga. The problem with
maintaining this link is that while in the Satanic System, the RHP and
LHP are polarizations, they are not in Hinduism. In Hinduism, the RHP
is considered the "safe" method for attaining spiritual enlightenment,
while Vama is a more intense, and hence dangerous, way to attain it.
Yes, this true, but it is also characterized solely from the standpoing
of the adept, not those others who may be victimized along the path of
the Vama Marga.
What he gave you is from the Hindu - where they DO have those taboos. What I
gave you (more than once on this thread) is not from the HIndu but
considered part of NORTHERN Buddhism - even if some nit pickers say "that's
not Buddhism, it's something else."

The only reason the VAJRAyana is considered dangerous (and that is LHP) is
due to the meditations and the fast-smash demolishing of the ego (defined as
a small part of the self that seeks to control the whole rest of the self).
That is the only danger. Is it dangerous? Well, I didn't used to think
so - but seeing people really get hurt (and seeing BIG medical bills)
convinced me that the Lama was right - it's dangerous.

Here is an analogy. RHP person sets about to "learn to swim." He goes thru
tiny steps, step by step, and eventually learns how to swim. LHP person
jumps into the ocean - he either SWIMS - or he dies. That is a very GOOD
analogy, Ryan. Obviously, the RHP swimming method is quite safe.
Obviously, the LHP swimming method is very dangerous.

The whole idea that there is any kind of sex involved comes from
misunderstanding the iconography. The yogas, eg, of Kargyupa are done in a
solitary way, not with anyone else present. They are all LHP - what you are
doing is unseen (tho I know it can be seen by a PET scan these days....).
They are not, eg, like physical yogas that anyone can see you doing.
Post by Alabaster
Post by RyanS2
However, we here note that the terms LHP/RHP have no moral implications
attached to them.
Correct.
Post by Alabaster
Yes, well, there is no moral inclusion in it there, and again it's from
the adept's point of view, not the potential victims of the "heroic"
"divine criminal" initiate of the Left Hand Path. The moral
infractions are decidedly implicit though conveniently overlooked, both
for the adept as well as those he or she may "herd."
Somehow, things are being twisted around. If you want to study the LHP,
study the life of Marpa or Mila Repa (Marpa's screw-up student). There is
nothing in any of this about manipulating anyone, let alone some big herd.
Post by Alabaster
Well, you're padding it a bit, no? Surely these things are shocking to
the orthodox Hindu sensibility, but not at all the limit of such
shocks...and they are considerably more dynamic than merely doing
doggy-style in a clothes dryer.
Hindus are not the same as Tibetans or Tatar Lamaists. In fact, we are
NOTHING like each other. Hindus have taboos that these other people do not
have.
Post by Alabaster
The Tantric source is perfectly fitting for the rooting of the Left
Hand Path as I believe Demons of the Flesh has made convincingly clear.
Have you read it?
You are constantly citing western and modern literature on this subject.
How about checking into what I said and reading OLDER original texts on
this? My take on western occultism is that that got a hardon for the term
LHP due to seriously misunderstood stuff, and due to christian stuff like
about goats and sheep. I really find it uncanny and unfathomable that you
really think that the TOS has any kind of real world power to do ANYTHING
like this. I mean, come on! Let's look at the realities here - MOST of the
world's genocide, literal and cultural, and MOST of the world's herding of
the herd has been done by Moslems or Christians - both of them are RHP.
Very very much YANG. Not YIN at all.
Post by Alabaster
Post by RyanS2
Another commonly cited source is Eliphas Levi, who knew Kabballah,
although the connection that he made with the infamous diagram of the
left-hand versus right-hand paths was mostly of his own devising.
Yes, he invented the idea that the pythagorean 2 point up pentacle
represented evil. He just made that up.
Post by Alabaster
Post by RyanS2
Levi's basic idea in this form of symbology is that the right hand
path, defines the World when spirit is above matter, or more
accurately, spirit above Earth. On the right, the left-hand path
symbolizes carnality, when the Material World is placed above that of
spirituality.
NONE of that is LHP at all - it's all dualistic as if matter/spirit can be
separated. LHP doctrines, real ones, are not dualistic at all - YOU ARE
"matter/spirit" as one thing. Matter is IN spirit - and ALL THINGS are
spirit. So then ALL matter exists within spirit. Western people have a
very hard time understanding the concept.

There's another reason for the use of the term "LHP" by
Post by Alabaster
Post by RyanS2
LaVey, connected with Quballah. The term that the Zohar uses for evil
is "Sitra Ahra", the "Other Side", or the Left-hand. Mather Walker
gives this explanation: http://www.sirbacon.org/mmerchantv.htm
LaVey knew nothing about the Kaballa.
Post by Alabaster
Post by RyanS2
"the right-hand pillar was associated the qualities of mildness, love
and mercy. The presence of evil in the universe was explained as
arising from entities associated with the left hand pillar, left hand
side, or simply sitra ahra (the other side). The doctrine which
gradually developed saw the source of evil in the superabundant growth
of the lefthand side through its separation from the restraining and
offsetting influence of the righthand side. From this unnatural
imbalance resulted a domain of dark emanations and demonic powers,
which were not a natural part of the organic whole, but were a
cancerous like growth."
Very interesting Kabbalistic references, yes,
But as Isaac Myer would explain, these are corrupted and popularized
pseudo-Kaballistic things.

these traditions do
Post by Alabaster
indeed overlap and superimpose. Jewish mysticism, and thence even
contemporary Jewish neo-Orthodoxy, has a great deal in common with
Tantrism. Most people without such knowledge would find this kind of
hard to believe.
Our monograph on the Kaballa (hermetic type) shows this very clearly.
Post by Alabaster
Where do you see yourself on this plateau, ryan?
Delila
2005-08-16 20:28:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tani Jantsang ©
LaVey knew nothing about the Kaballa.
But as Isaac Myer would explain, these are corrupted and popularized
pseudo-Kaballistic things.
Our monograph on the Kaballa (hermetic type) shows this very clearly.
What do you think of the Hollywood type of Kaballa as practised by the
likes of Madonna?


D.
Tani Jantsang ©
2005-08-16 22:28:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Delila
Post by Tani Jantsang ©
LaVey knew nothing about the Kaballa.
But as Isaac Myer would explain, these are corrupted and popularized
pseudo-Kaballistic things.
Our monograph on the Kaballa (hermetic type) shows this very clearly.
What do you think of the Hollywood type of Kaballa as practised by the
likes of Madonna?
Never heard of it. I did hear of Madonna - she sang good songs. I don't
know anything else about the woman.

For one, most of what I have in the Kaballa monograph I got from an orthodox
Jew - who read the explanations I did in plain concrete language (English) -
and it was confirmed by another Jew who also had Myer (and at the time it
was long out of print, he let me see it and copy the entire book). He was a
member of a temple down here that is solely Kaballistic. A Jew named Erich
writing me from Israel said it was accurate and very good, understandable,
like in plain English (which he did speak). He then proceeded to give me
more material which is on the website now (Dark Doc in Jewish Tradition).
And yet another Jewish expert said it was quite good. That's good enough
for me.
Post by Delila
D.
F***@yahoo.com
2005-08-17 00:43:31 UTC
Permalink
What do you think of the Hollywood type of Kaballa as practised by the likes of Madonna?
Don't like it, personally.

John S.
--------------------------------------------
http://2020ok.com - Free Online Books
Kori Houghton
2005-08-11 05:26:21 UTC
Permalink
Excellent!
Post by RyanS2
"In the World of Hinduism, the division was made between two paths, the
RHP, and the LHP, or Dakshina Marga, and Vama Marga. The problem with
maintaining this link is that while in the Satanic System, the RHP and
LHP are polarizations, they are not in Hinduism. In Hinduism, the RHP
is considered the "safe" method for attaining spiritual enlightenment,
while Vama is a more intense, and hence dangerous, way to attain it.
Right. And in Hinduism, both paths are methods of spiritual attainment
as opposed to being methods for restructuring society for the benefit
of the self-styled elect at the expense of the designated herd.
Post by RyanS2
The use of the term was drawn from eastern Tantra. When worshippers
gathered for a rite of puja, the woman or shakti would sit on the right
side of the partner, if it was purely symbolic ceremonies. However,
sitting on the left meant that sex would take place, the woman was
being regarded as the incarnation of the Goddess. The nature of LHP in
tantra is an extreme one, a tantric maxim states that "One reaches
Heaven by the very practices which may lead to Hell."
A concept which influenced American youth culture heavily in the late
1960s and throughout the 70s and early 80s....until the identification
of HIV.
Post by RyanS2
However, we here note that the terms LHP/RHP have no moral implications
attached to them. As an example of attaining enlightenment in a LHP
kind of way, think of doing a sexual practice that you have never
thought of before, something to totally "shock" you into higher
consciousness. Another example would have been going to Vietnam, but
the point of the LHP is that it is voluntarily attained enlightenment.
Not sure I follow you here. "War is all hell...." This comment was
made a century before Vietnam.
Post by RyanS2
Perhaps an illustration would be better. In the classical systems of
LHP Tantra, practices and ceremonies were done which were not socially
acceptable. I.e. in the panca-tattva rite, they would partake five
substances including forbidden sex, wine, and meat. Doing this is
America would not be considered LHP because it is done daily and
unconsciously by many Americans. It certainly wouldn't shock anyone
here. This obviously is not the source we are looking for in this
discussion....
It was difficult to find any obvious taboos for public flouting in
1970s America, so the obvious antinomian act was the embrace of
fundamentalist religion by the privledged and educated young people.
Post by RyanS2
Another commonly cited source is Eliphas Levi, who knew Kabballah,
although the connection that he made with the infamous diagram of the
left-hand versus right-hand paths was mostly of his own devising.
Dunno. Might be something to it based on alchemical symbolism along
with QBL.
Post by RyanS2
Levi's basic idea in this form of symbology is that the right hand
path, defines the World when spirit is above matter, or more
accurately, spirit above Earth. On the right, the left-hand path
symbolizes carnality, when the Material World is placed above that of
spirituality. There's another reason for the use of the term "LHP" by
LaVey, connected with Quballah. The term that the Zohar uses for evil
is "Sitra Ahra", the "Other Side", or the Left-hand. Mather Walker
gives this explanation: http://www.sirbacon.org/mmerchantv.htm
I'll have to re-read some Levi and check out your link -- thanks!
Post by RyanS2
"the right-hand pillar was associated the qualities of mildness, love
and mercy. The presence of evil in the universe was explained as
arising from entities associated with the left hand pillar, left hand
side, or simply sitra ahra (the other side). The doctrine which
gradually developed saw the source of evil in the superabundant growth
of the lefthand side through its separation from the restraining and
offsetting influence of the righthand side. From this unnatural
imbalance resulted a domain of dark emanations and demonic powers,
which were not a natural part of the organic whole, but were a
cancerous like growth."
Hmmm...I thought the 'dark emanations' were below the Tree rather than
on the left side. Interesting.

Some new stuff to explore here, Ryan!

Kori
Tani Jantsang ©
2005-08-16 18:11:39 UTC
Permalink
How the ToS defines LHP is irrelevant.

The terms LHP, and RHP, are not Western, and certainly not Christian. While
Tantrik "Buddhists" never called themselves RHP or LHP, this term was
applied to them. The two aren't at odds with each other. Both paths are ways
to Wisdom: the difference is not in the goal but in the method.

Hinayana Buddhism (Little Path Buddhism) is the closest Buddhist sect to
what Siddhartha actually taught. Its emphasis is on the 8-fold noble path,
and other things typically associated with early Buddhist practice. It is
very concerned with rules, laws, and proper behavior: etiquette! While it is
a path of Wisdom, it is not a path of Knowing. Of course, those on this path
are not considered able to know otherwise they wouldn't be on that path! It
is not their fate to be on any other path.

Mahayana Buddhism (Great Path Buddhism) replaced Theravada. Nagarjuna is
considered the successor to the Buddha by the followers of this path.
Mahayana is more of a path of knowing, but it's not what we would consider
Satanic in the Dark Path sense that "all knowing happens directly through
the whole body." The person who seeks out this path seeks it out because he
is unable to know through the body directly, but he is able to understand
with the mind. In Pythagorean terms, these people could be considered
Akousmatikoi: those who are able to listen, and learn the way to do
something, even if they can't truly understand.

Vajrayana (Vajra Path, Lightning Path, Direct Path), or Tantrik "Buddhism,"
is the path of instant, direct, and specifically physical-body knowledge and
is more rightly called either Padma Sambhava-ism or just Shiva-ism. Strictly
speaking, in terms of Theology, it is not Buddhism. Herein is the tradition
of Kundalini Yoga, the Siddhi, Tumo, Phova, Milam, the Chod, etc. and other
recognizably Black Magical practices. Those who are on this path are there
because they can do Vajrayana and attain Samadhi without thinking about it
(literally). In fact, they do it without "wanting" to. That's the real key.
. . they do through active non doing. Vajrayana is totally LHP - but this
does not mean that those from whole cultures that are Vajrayanists don't
have fun or do normal things. (This has nothing to do with the invention
called "Tantrik Sex," nor does it have a thing to do with breaking taboos.
These notions are totally modern, Western inventions of sex clubs.)

Mahayana is LHP in the sense that the reason for its existence is that it is
a path of knowing from the inner method even if it takes slow, methodical
steps to this knowledge. Mahayana is also RHP because it is the doing of
deeds that help the person "acquire" this knowledge.

Now. . . here is the important Truth. There is no conflict between these
paths if they are True; they are yin/yang and exist together and this
embodies real stratification in the sense of people naturally working at
their own abilities. I.e., what you are good at, naturally comes easy!
Because of this, there is always RHP in LHP, and always LHP in RHP. There is
the "Being" of the receptive LHP and then the "Becoming" which is the active
RHP. There is the Knowledge of the LHP that leads to the deeds of the RHP.
Everything is Yin and Yang. Passive Idea; Active Deed. Like Sat-Being and
Tan-Becoming.

To people at inner peace with themselves, the Dark Paths are Peaceful. They
are beautiful, soft, and solitary. . . This does not mean they are hermits;
not at all. There is nothing busy or hectic about the Dark Paths. They are
totally inner. When a person has an inner core which has been compromised by
cultural Christianity or something else, the best they can come up with is a
self-overcoming where they try, oftentimes in vain, to "fix" their broken
selves. In neurological terms, they lack the "organic I." These people
cannot know. The best thing for them is to join one of the pacifistic
liberal Christian Churches they rage against so at least they have rules
that prevent them from hurting themselves or others. What they don't
understand is that they cannot know, because they are not able to grasp the
knowledge that is at the Core of their Being. They often sublimate by
"getting interested in" rebellion: but against what? What exactly is it they
are rebelling against?

If they really want to revolt against tyranny, why are they sublimating? Why
don't they do something? Most of these types that "get into Satanism" are
inversionist Christians and they shove their "Christian shit" in our faces
as much or more than Fundamentalist Christians shove the Christian shit in
our faces. They reek of Christianity, and within them it's an infection they
try to get out of their systems by screaming and wailing about it and
turning it all upside down. Satanists don't want to hear it. An American
flag side ways or upside down is recognizably still an American flag. And a
cross upside down is still a Cross. Same thing.

The RHP is the way of Yang. The LHP is the way of Yin. That's it. And like
Yin and Yang, you cannot separate the two. Yin/Dark/Receptive.
Yang/Light/Active.

But this is the danger of the Lie. . . when Right and Left become something
that are against each other, then the RHP is a false path.... a false Light.
And LHP is felt (not thought, but felt) to be frightening and evil. This
misconception, within a person, is the striving, craving for the Light Alone
rebelling to exist without the Dark Parent from whence it came. That is
truly self-destructive... The only people who understand what RHP and LHP
really are. . . and then also see these as separate and opposed. . . are
Klippoths. They see it opposed because they themselves are opposed to their
own shell-ish non-being. In otherwords, they know this Lie and Falsehood
through their own peculiar flesh!

Apparently, or so I'm told, there is some kind of Thelemite tradition that
has it that the LHP was derived from the thesis about Lucifer being God's
angel seated on His left. It spoke or taught of a more aggressive approach
to the occult and was adopted by many styles of magic, including early
Thelema. That puts a whole new slant on the confusion over LHP and RHP which
is, in fact, very new and exclusively Western, perhaps WASP only. Please
refer to "Which KINDS of Satanism" on this website. I am unable to locate a
thesis on this; it may be just the oral tradition of some groups of
Thelemites and never written down.

For the record, "Lucifer" was never used as the name for Satan or the Devil
until Milton used it. The other reference to Hilel for Nebuchadnezzar is a
mistranslation by Origin, as is pointed out in an essay entitled, "Satan Or
Lucifer - The Same? Or the Opposite!," in Package of Doctrines (on sale, see
the advertisement).

However, interestingly, from the Christian Bible: [Mat 25:32] Before him
will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate them one from another
as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats, [Mat 25:33] and he will
place the sheep at his right hand, but the goats at the left. Christians
have always referred to themselves as sheep. Satanists identify with the
Goat of Mendes. The Goat is actually Azazel, but Azazel alone was never
associated with the Hebrew ha stn (The Satan). The Hebrews did have a more
folkish tradition wherein they combined Samael, Leviathan (or Lilith) and
Azazal together to make "The Beast," or CHIVA. For more on this, please see
www.lylyth.org

The Standard Definition, even given in "Mind of the Ninja" by Dr. Petersen,
which he wrote and explained for a Western readership, is what we use in the
bonafide Dark Tradition. This has nothing to do with behavior, or with
rebellion. In fact, the entire Promethian (or Luciferian) tradition in
regular Western Civilization, something that led to the industrial age and
technological age, are very RHP. Surely, the inspiration for such works was
originally LHP in that it was inspired; but making these marvels of
technology manifest is an act that is purely an example of RHP. More or
less, the inventors took what was darkly inspired and brought it into the
light to be seen and used by all.

If anything, rebellion and revolt against unjust societies (very bloody
usually) are Yang - ergo RPH according to the way we ubiquitously understand
things. I've given the standard definition in this article. The Encyclopedia
of Buddhism, which also defines Naga Shivaism, something much older, has
this same definition and anyone that takes the "above" and synthesizes it
with the "below" can clearly see this.. Even Kung Fu, the way they define
yin and yang forms, fits this definition.
Post by Alabaster
Hello,
Some recent discussion on the list has touched upon the Left Hand Path
in relation to the Temple of Set and the Set Movement generally as well
as its contrast with the Right Hand Path.
I think it would be interesting to discuss what the Left Hand Path
means to people.
How do you see these distinctions? If you see yourself as a
follower/adept of the Left Hand Path, what does that mean to you, and
what are the sources of your views--personal, documentary and
initiatory?
I see myself as more or less a follower of the Right Hand Path, but not
defined in the traditional way, in many respects my own path is
Leftwardly. For myself, I really personally redefine both the Left and
Right Hand Paths as well as the Light and Dark Sides of the Force, ala
Lucas.
Where do you see yourself in this and how do you defend your position?
Regards,
Alabaster
alabastermushroom at gmail dot com
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